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Will this water pump work? Answered

 It is tought to be a wind-powered water pump and i wonder if the desing would work. I hope the picture is understandable.

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joey99
joey99

Best Answer 10 years ago

yes it will

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kumar.m
kumar.m

9 years ago

i think it will not work, because it has one port

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VentingIntrovert
VentingIntrovert

9 years ago

It might not work, because your design is too simple especially if you are making it from household materials. First, the piston head can tilt or move, leaving equal pressure on both sides. Second, you might need some gears to generate enough torque to move the piston and the water. Perhaps a heavy flywheel to get the momentum going first. Last, another valve to direct the pumped water.

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NachoMahma
NachoMahma

10 years ago

.  If you have to lift the water, you need another check valve as others have mentioned. If you have zero or greater static suction head, it should work as shown.

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finton
finton

Answer 10 years ago

Sure, but if we had a "zero or greater static suction head", what's the point of the pump? We could just dispense with the pump and gravity-feed straight from the source. Or am I'm missing something? I reckon we'd need that second valve...

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NachoMahma
NachoMahma

Answer 10 years ago

. Only if the pressure is greater than how far we have to lift.

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finton
finton

Answer 10 years ago

Static suction head diagram:

Static suction head.JPG
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finton
finton

Answer 10 years ago

Oh aye. My bad. Static suction head is "the positive vertical height from the pump centerline to the top of the level of the liquid source". In this pump's case zero sucton head would be about the level of the bottom of the plunger's travel, thus allowing the plunger to drop below water level. So the pump would work as is. Still reckon a second check valve (on the inlet) would improve things though...

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Adam Manick
Adam Manick

10 years ago

the water might stop the motor from turning. You have to use a strong motor.

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sukinmaru
sukinmaru

10 years ago

Yes, as a matter of fact, it looks like a cutaway view of one of those old water pumps from "the olden days". Just be sure to add one-way valves on the plunger so water can be forced in, but not out.

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SpeedStrikerXLR
SpeedStrikerXLR

10 years ago

Looks like it ought to work, presuming that the check valve has enough flexibility and the piston has a good seal . I assume you're using a rubber-ish sheet of some sort for the check valve? I'd suggest using a taller piston to help keep it properly aligned in the cylinder. The one in the drawing looks like it might get torqued into a non-horizontal alignment pretty easily, which would prevent the check valve from working properly. Otherwise, it looks like a perfectly servicable crankshaft pump design.

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RavingMadStudios
RavingMadStudios

10 years ago

Looks like it ought to work, presuming that the check valve has enough flexibility and the piston has a good seal . I assume you're using a rubber-ish sheet of some sort for the check valve?
I'd suggest using a taller piston to help keep it properly aligned in the cylinder. The one in the drawing looks like it might get torqued into a non-horizontal alignment pretty easily, which would prevent the check valve from working properly. Otherwise, it looks like a perfectly servicable crankshaft pump design.

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seandogue
seandogue

Answer 10 years ago

Agreed. I've seen pumps similar to this at various locations (parks,  old, established campites, cabins, etc.) all over in the US. The difference is that the real ones use a guide ring to keep the main shaft in a relatively centered and vertical position. For the purposes of illustration, imagine a cap on top with a  hole in the center, thru which the rod is inserted.

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RavingMadStudios
RavingMadStudios

Answer 10 years ago

Good point. I was assuming there would be some kind of cap (or maybe a flexible boot) to help divert the pumped water into a spigot or sluice, and to keep excess scrud out of the cylinder, but it certainly bears mentioning.

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seandogue
seandogue

Answer 10 years ago

Well, I figured this was a simple illustration for conceptual purposes, rather than a final assembly drawing. I still have issues with the mechanism, since it allows the main shaft to flap back and forth, which I don't believe is good engineering, when your shaft length could be several yards long. I would not want to have to retrieve a broken shaft that has been fatigued from excess side to side motion or replace other portions that have been damaged by that action. Much easier and imo safer to replace any fatigued portion well outside the potable water source......

I'd be more inclined towards using a more tried and true method using a secondary linkage that takes the "heat" of the offset drive and leaves the motion at the pump to a single dimension, ie, up and down..

as for the guide, Picture a celtic cross with a hole in the center. It allows outflow thru the four openings into a spigot/etc., rather than a solid cap with a slot or hole in it.

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RavingMadStudios
RavingMadStudios

Answer 10 years ago

Makes sense. I thought we were going for "conceptual & simple", so that the lateral shaft motion wouldn't be a major worrisome factor. Since Ed hasn't mentioned what the intended use of the pump is, or what kind of duty cycles we're talking about, it's kind of hard to make a call on that front.
If we're designing a device for real-world heavy-duty use, the secondary linkage makes a ton of sense, as does the secondary check valve that Kiteman brought up. I suppose the secondary linkage could still be simple, though. Something like a Cardan gear might be overkill, but then again, maybe not...

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EdSe1991
EdSe1991

Answer 10 years ago

 This one is just a small test without any purpose, just for fun.

We have a major problem with water when the snow melts. This will need a larger and more "complicated" pump, sometimes in the future, but for now I'm just testing some ideas.

1.png3.png
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seandogue
seandogue

Answer 10 years ago

have you considered an Archimedes screw?

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seandogue
seandogue

Answer 10 years ago

Exactly. An Archimedes screw. That's what dawned on me when I saw the pics you presented and realized this was for drainage rather than potable supply.

You may want to dredge a pit at the low end for placement of the screw to facilitate complete(ish) drainage

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seandogue
seandogue

Answer 10 years ago

Very true.

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sockless
sockless

Answer 10 years ago

Archimedes screws also have the advantage that they are very tolerant of stuff that's not water (i.e. stones) being sucked up, since this pump is for drainage, this may happen.

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seandogue
seandogue

Answer 10 years ago

here's a crude idea of what I'm saying


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EdSe1991
EdSe1991

Answer 10 years ago

 I want to keep it as simple as possible. This have, according to me, to many moving parts, although it's probalby the smartest way.

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RavingMadStudios
RavingMadStudios

Answer 10 years ago

It's really only three additional parts, and it would significantly reduce the lateral stresses on the piston shaft. I'd go with something like this, all else being equal.
That said, the original configuration without the secondary linkage will work (with a taller piston and a second check valve), and it might be all you need for a prototype to demonsrate proof of concept, and for intermittent use. For extended use, adding the linkage would be a significant improvement. Luckily, it would be very easy to retrofit the linkage should you decide to add one later.

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EdSe1991
EdSe1991

Answer 10 years ago

The shaft should be able to move from side to side so maybe something like this? 

Namnl��s3.png
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RavingMadStudios
RavingMadStudios

Answer 10 years ago

Sure, that would work. Or if you wanted a slightly better seal, you could make it out of a flexible material that would move laterally with the shaft, and thereby have a smaller hole. Either way, most of the water goes where you want it instead of just sloshing out of the top.
Alternately, you could just let it slosh out the top and collect in a basin around the base of the cylinder, with a tap in the bottom of the basin to attach pipes or hoses to. Whatever works best for your purposes.

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Garethjones_67
Garethjones_67

10 years ago

I have seen these pumps used in 3rd world countries to great effect.  They are hand operated - whatever way you move it up and down is not relevant for the pump mechanism, maybe deal with this seperately once you have a pump which works.  

Essentially these have a large flat washer with holes around the inside, covered by a piece of rubber (like inner tube rubber) for the valve. This is placed inside a PVC pipe and moved up and down using the shaft you have shown(assuming vertical).  Holding the shaft straight could be an issue which has been dealt with above, as has the issue of additional valves further up and down the pipe to stop back-flow. These could be constructed in a similar way to the moving valve. 

Whatever you find, I'd like to see pics/diagrams of the final product as this could be a great project for at home.

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renewilson
renewilson

10 years ago

Well i don't know that this will help you or not but according to me what i understood is a sump pump and for your SUMP PUMP this i think can help you out to get an idea. I am not sure as i said but what's the harm in checking it out. Let me know if it did any help or not.

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ledzep567
ledzep567

10 years ago

I do not think this will work, the piston moving up and down will also move side to side. The face pressing the water will not stay horizontal and therefor let water escape on either side.

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chubby8
chubby8

10 years ago

you need a valve on the inlet

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Kiteman
Kiteman

10 years ago

Almost, but not quite - you need a second one-way valve on the inlet.

As it stands, the water in the cylinder below the piston will just get pushed back down the inlet pipe.


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RavingMadStudios
RavingMadStudios

Answer 10 years ago

Very good point. This is why you get the big bucks.

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Kiteman
Kiteman

Answer 10 years ago

Eh?

None of them are coming my way!

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EdSe1991
EdSe1991

Answer 10 years ago

 Maybe if the ring covering the holes is light enough no second valve is needed.

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Kiteman
Kiteman

Answer 10 years ago

It depends on the pressure or height of the incoming water.

The second valve (made exactly the same way as that in your diagram) would vastly improve efficiency.