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  • PROOF OF CONCEPT: A chilled water air conditioning prototype.

    Chanelok.......as Mjtrinihobby said.... you are a guru! My idea was to use a split airconditioner indoor unit as the AHU. These are (at least in my neck of the woods) complete units with fan, controllers and remotes. My idea was that these are aesthetically better and have all the controls, i.e. fan speed, temp regulators etc already built in. Am I wrong here? and am I thinking too simplistically? My main concern was, would the cooling coils ( which are designed for gas expansion) have the carrying capacity for enough water to provide sufficient cooling? Any insights would be helpful!Also since I live in a 5thfloor apartment, I do not have the option of water cooling the return flow before it enters the chiller. My idea was to run the return line thru a cooling coil buried inside a sw...

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    Chanelok.......as Mjtrinihobby said.... you are a guru! My idea was to use a split airconditioner indoor unit as the AHU. These are (at least in my neck of the woods) complete units with fan, controllers and remotes. My idea was that these are aesthetically better and have all the controls, i.e. fan speed, temp regulators etc already built in. Am I wrong here? and am I thinking too simplistically? My main concern was, would the cooling coils ( which are designed for gas expansion) have the carrying capacity for enough water to provide sufficient cooling? Any insights would be helpful!Also since I live in a 5thfloor apartment, I do not have the option of water cooling the return flow before it enters the chiller. My idea was to run the return line thru a cooling coil buried inside a swamp cooler. The swamp cooler, the chiller and possibly the pump would run off solar panels (depends on how much solar power I can generate) Running the whole system during sunlight hours, typically 8-12 hours as day during the warm season, would keep the apartment cool during the hottest part of the day and to use grid power only for the nights.As a "thermodynamics guru" do u think my "plan in my head" makes any sense at all ? or am I barking up a pine tree in a tropical rain forest? ;-) . Mjtrinihobby has helped me to see the light with his proof of concept project but I would love to have any inputs you could offer. BTW you mention............ "but the brine remained liquid down to" ........ do you use the propylene glycol in a brine solution or just water?Many thanx againRumi

    Chanelok.......Wow, that is some detail you have gone into!...... I dont think tube in tube heat exchangers are within my capacity and capability. Though I do live in an area of relatively low humidity - around 50% most of the year..... using just a swamp cooler I dont think is really an option since temps regularly reach 35*c in the summers and last week we had three straight days of 40*c+. So I believe a chiller unit is called for. To extract some the heat from the return water(brine) my idea was to use the swamp cooler setup before it hits the chiller.Your caution on the effectiveness of the aircon AHU is great! That is what I wanted/needed to know. I dont have one ( or the 5 I need) as yet and was trying to figure out if they would work before loading my home with more useless stuff...

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    Chanelok.......Wow, that is some detail you have gone into!...... I dont think tube in tube heat exchangers are within my capacity and capability. Though I do live in an area of relatively low humidity - around 50% most of the year..... using just a swamp cooler I dont think is really an option since temps regularly reach 35*c in the summers and last week we had three straight days of 40*c+. So I believe a chiller unit is called for. To extract some the heat from the return water(brine) my idea was to use the swamp cooler setup before it hits the chiller.Your caution on the effectiveness of the aircon AHU is great! That is what I wanted/needed to know. I dont have one ( or the 5 I need) as yet and was trying to figure out if they would work before loading my home with more useless stuff than it needs to handle ;-) About the chiller unit my plan was to use a solar powered, off-the-shelf, chest deep freezer which has the option of grid power in low/zero sunlight conditions. I have considered two options when using the deep freezer.......... 1. Use the storage cavity as a storage tank/chiller tank for the water ...or.... .... 2. Lining the inside of the cavity with copper tubing to work as a heat exchanger and making it a sealed system for the chilled water.One more question, if I may, since the piping to the 5 AHU's will be considerable length, do I need to insulate the return line? My limited knowledge throws up two conflicting scenarios........ 1. If the water is still cold( i.e. less heat extracting happening if only 1 or 2 AHUs are working at the time), an un-insulated line extract heat from the ambient air and ... 2. If the line is insulated and all AHUs are online then there will be minimal heat loss during the return, which is counter productive. Which scenario would be the less damaging ( or more efficient) in your opinion? The third possibility I had considered was using a thermal valve to redirect the flow to the insulated line when below a set temp and to the uninsulated line above the set temp. Piping costs are manageable, but the thermal actuated valves are pricey and I was wondering if I need to go to such lengths? What are your thoughts on this?I will definitely take your offer and will try to send you some pics of the type of AHU I plan to experiment with. Dont have one on hand but will try to get pics of an existing installed one and mail them to you. Appreciate your time and effort to share your experience and expertise.Rumi

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  • PROOF OF CONCEPT: A chilled water air conditioning prototype.

    Thanx for your response and thoughts.......... I am barely competant at reading books, so reading minds is far beyond my metaphysical capabilities :-) ;-).What does your experience tell you about my idea of wrapping a custom made cooling coil on the inner walls of the freezer rather than free coolant. My thought process is this where free liquid in the freezer cavity is concerned....1. The return liquid entering the freezer cavity will warm up the already cooled liquid partially defeating and adding unnecessary load. This could be mitigated by horizontally baffling the cavity so the flow of warmer water is dropped on top and slows the mixing with the colder lower layers. The liquid pick up line would need to access this layer.2. We would need some kind of agitator to mix the central co...

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    Thanx for your response and thoughts.......... I am barely competant at reading books, so reading minds is far beyond my metaphysical capabilities :-) ;-).What does your experience tell you about my idea of wrapping a custom made cooling coil on the inner walls of the freezer rather than free coolant. My thought process is this where free liquid in the freezer cavity is concerned....1. The return liquid entering the freezer cavity will warm up the already cooled liquid partially defeating and adding unnecessary load. This could be mitigated by horizontally baffling the cavity so the flow of warmer water is dropped on top and slows the mixing with the colder lower layers. The liquid pick up line would need to access this layer.2. We would need some kind of agitator to mix the central column of liquid with the wall column else the central column will be warmer. This could defeat the natural layering of warm and cold liquid so could it land up to be self defeating?I assume when you say engine coolant you mean antifreeze mixed in water. Or are you referring to the new "waterless-coolant" available? What is the cost effectiveness of using "waterless-coolant" and what is the chemical footprint? I am not an engineer by training or experience but do have an aptitude for understanding by observation, however do you think I am "overthinking" the whole process???Appreciate your inputs and sharing your experience and knowledge.BTW my system (theoretical) needs to cool approx 1500 sq ft of living space so I need to ramp up my system quite a bit!

    Hi,This a wonderful proof-of-concept project and has helped me to take the decision to go ahead with a similar if more complicated project I have been working on (in my head) Your project saves me the trouble, expense and work on a POC of my own. Was always convinced it would work but was not sure of the energy saving potential.I now have some questions which i wonder if you or anyone else could answer...1. I plan to use a solar powered domestic chest freezer as the chiller unit. Question: Do I need to use the freezer as a water tank/make up unit, or could I make a copper cooling coil that runs along the walls of the freezer This in my mind achieves two objectives- 1. I can have a sealed system with no air getting in to cause air-blocks and corrosion. 2. Th...

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    Hi,This a wonderful proof-of-concept project and has helped me to take the decision to go ahead with a similar if more complicated project I have been working on (in my head) Your project saves me the trouble, expense and work on a POC of my own. Was always convinced it would work but was not sure of the energy saving potential.I now have some questions which i wonder if you or anyone else could answer...1. I plan to use a solar powered domestic chest freezer as the chiller unit. Question: Do I need to use the freezer as a water tank/make up unit, or could I make a copper cooling coil that runs along the walls of the freezer This in my mind achieves two objectives- 1. I can have a sealed system with no air getting in to cause air-blocks and corrosion. 2. The remaining space in the freezer can still be used2. I plan to use junked/recycled split airconditioning AHU's to extract the heat in the rooms. The reason? Aesthetics, already installed control systems with remotes etc.These AHU's should be cheap enough to acquire since according to my experience faulty air conditioners are usually due to the compressor /condenser side problems.Question: 1. Can anyone see why this would not work? 2. Are the evaporator coil pipes large enough diameter to carry water instead of refrigerant.Any other cautions, inputs, suggestions are welcome.Once again thanx and good luck with your project!CheersRumi

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