OFFERED: IBM "Mainframe"

. I have an IBM computer that was used to run a local oil refinery. It has two cabinets (62"H x 36"D x 26"W) that I'm guessing weigh somewhere around 250 pounds each, three terminals (one appears to be "smart"), a few misc pieces of network cable (not Cat5, some kind of coax) and what appears to be a network hub. Approx 10 feet of manuals. . One cabinet is marked: Type 9309 S/N 10-0046692 and contains a 3/4" (maybe 1") mag tape drive (quite a bit of damage to the door, but the transport looks OK) and five PSUs (220VAC in, not sure of the out specs). The rear door is marked "9309 2" . The other cabinet is marked: Type 9309 S/N 10-0074115 and contains a 10" floppy and what appears to be the CPU. . That's everything I know about it. If you can tell me what to look for and where it is on the unit, I'll look for it. . I've never seen it powered up, so I have no idea what, if anything, works. . Located in South Arkansas, US. You must pick up. I will not deliver nor arrange for delivery. It was delivered in a "standard" pickup truck, but the springs were sagging a bit. . Would like to trade for something useful, but will consider free-to-good-home. . Please remember that this thing is huge, heavy, and not much use as a computer (I had dreams of using it for "home control" eg, HVAC, security). If you don't have the resources to come get it, please don't ask questions, 'cuz I've already told you all I know about it.

Posted by NachoMahma 11 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago

IBM model M has 5 keys that do not work. How can I clean those contacts in the membranes?

The keyboard is in excellent shape otherwise.  Can I puncture the bottom metal shell in the locations in trouble and then inject contact cleaner?  Are there some other vent holes that might be used?  Could it be an electonic problem or circuit board plating in those areas?  The five keys affected are : g,  h,    apostophe ,   up arow,  and the number pad zero. Thanks

Asked by rogets 8 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

Laptop Problems(IBM ThinkPad)

Hey guys,I was recently given an IBM ThinkPad when my mom replaced her laptop,and I am experiencing problems.When I boot,it goes fine.Then when the Welcome Screen appears the screen gets real dim.I have experienced the same problem when I run resource intensive loads,i.e playing games in fullscreen,and it happens when I close the cover.Anyway,sometimes if I reboot instantly,the whole screen becomes black,I don't even see the IBM bios splashscreen.Anyway,it's over my head.I would appreciate any help.I am writing from a cybercafe now,and I can't look at the specs of the laptop now.I will look when I goback home and update this ASAP.

Posted by Derin 10 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago

See this - ancient IBM video (although it's probably film...)

This is so... It's back then, it's like teaching cave-men how to arrive at 42... What did typing-pools make of this? Punch-cards, magnetic- ah such good old stuff Retro', very retro', and in parts quite profound. And it's ... Cholmondley-Warner?

Posted by lemonie 8 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

I gots a computer question

Hey guys, I got a bit of a question to ask. I'm back at school and the school gave me a laptop to use (I'm in highschool) but it's one that doesn't have "their" school modified disk image on it with their crap like deepfreeze (resets the entire system each reboot) and of course, pretty much everything is cut out of the start menu and it's just generally shit (hence why I had removed the image and installed my own XP on it). Long story short, the tech teacher I was talking with said that (well actually he kept switching his story around) he had the wifi key written down somewhere but couldn't remember where he put it (suuurree). Then he told me a schoolboard admin was coming thursday (this past thurs) and the guy would set it up on my laptop for me. He did come but he never did anything for me, him and the teacher spent all day playing with some new photocopier they got. So yesturday I went on one of THEIR laptops (ironically it was said teacher's laptop he used in the school cept he wasn't there so I was able to use it). I went looking through the computer for where the wifi utility that both I and the school use for managing connection profiles and their keys instead of letting xp handle the wifi. Standard ibm software I got of their site. It appears that the keys are stored in the regristry and not in files, they're listed in folders for each profile. So what I did was save the directory of profiles (there was only one for the wifi). Now it looked like they were hex keys, and I'm pretty sure it is HEX but it's longer than what will fit in the settings for wifi in the ibm program. So I was wondering if the numbers are hashed or something so you have to crack the codes to access the actual hex key? If anyone knows how I can get the key out of the number I can send you the .reg file that I saved. I'm not trying to hack into the school, they know that I need access to it so I can print my work out but the tech teacher seems to be a dumbass (not to mention he looks like captain picard/mr.clean, a combo of both maybe?!!??!).

Posted by Punkguyta 11 years ago  |  last reply 11 years ago

Thinkpad ideas, please.

I seem to have acquired an elderly IBM Thinkpad.  It appears to be fully functional, but... It's running Windows 98, It has a single USB socket, but does not recognise any of the pendrives I plug into it. It has a floppy drive that can be plugged in the side It has no wifi. I have never done anything constructive inside the guts of a computer. So, basically, it's useless to the modern laptop user.  Raw materials. Any ideas?

Posted by Kiteman 8 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

cleaning off an old mouse

I have recently acquired an old IBM mouse. I was planing to turning it into one of those mouse bots, but after looking inside I couldn't bring my self to do it. So now I want to clean it up. The former owner had put on black scotch tape racing stripes. So now there are 3 dirty yellowish streaks of adhesive any ideas as to how to make it look like new ? thanks in advance

Posted by clasic_traveller_diehard 10 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago

Thinkpad t42 malfunction

I have an old IBM Thinkpad T42 it worked fine for several years. but recently it started malfunctioning. Whenever i shake it the screen goes black and the laptop freezes. If I take out the battery and put it back again it starts up every time. I disassembled it and checked everything but i coudn't find the cause of the malfunction. I think something toutches the metal frame but i coudn't find what does it. Can someone give me any idea what's the problem is? 

Asked by LordPeti 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

my smallest computer build: HELP WANTED

Recently, I got an IBM motherboard from one of my friends. They gave it to me because of all the bad caps that were on it. Little did they know that I would find the caps to fix it. Now that it works again, I decided I should put it into something really cool. I had a dead curtis rcd847 cd player, and a motherboard that would fit inside it. I have everything that is needed for it to work: 256mb ram, a power supply, keyboard and mouse, a hard drive, etc. now i need help figuring out how i am going to get the power supply, hard drive, and maybe even a cdrom drive into this cd player. this is the point where i am asking for some help. i was thinking about making a base for it but are there any other suggestions for how do go about it? PS: the first picture is the motherboard, the second the power supply, the third is all of the bad capacitors, 4 and 5 are the cd player shell, and the last one is the hard drive

Posted by zack247 9 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

How do I fix an IBM Thinkpad battery?

Hello. My family has this really old IBM Thinkpad that sits in my room nowadays. It runs Windows 98 Second Edition (SE). It's a pretty good little unit, but the battery won't hold a charge, and thus, only works when plugged in. Is there any way to fix this without having to buy a new battery? Also, how much RAM can it take?

Asked by TheOneAndOnlyMissingNo. 9 years ago  |  last reply 9 years ago

how can I turn an old laptop monitor into a usable stand alone display?

I recently disassembled an old ibm thinkpad 380E laptop i had laying around. I have the guts and all that including the wire harness's and power inverter. The screen model is a Hitachi SX31S004 or ibm P/n 12J0130. I want to use the lcd by itself without having to get the laptop running as I have removed it from the case and have the board sitting in a drawer. I suppose I could reassemble the thing but I dont want to use all that. I would like to find the pinouts for the lcd but they have proven very hard to find. IF anyone can point in the right direction that would be tops. then maybe I can build something and make and instructable too

Asked by SketchBoard 10 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

How to build a video or picture frame with just a old IBM thinkpad laptop screen?

How to build a video or picture frame with just a old IBM thinkpad laptop screen? I have a just a laptop screen and want to be able to power it up and and hook add a video in put to it.

Asked by retoddb 10 years ago  |  last reply 9 years ago

how do i boot the linux iso from a usb flash drive when the the original os doesn't work?

I have an old IBM 390X that i have installed windows xp, but that has glitched and i want to install linux from a usb thumb drive, i have never done it before so i want to try it; i know how to install os's from cds and floppys. two more questions 1-can linux run exe's? 2-how do you edit the code in linux? because i heard that it was oped scource

Asked by The nerdling 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

How can I install Ubuntu on a Windows laptop?A R31 ThinkPad,to be precise.? Answered

I have gotten bored of Windows on this machine.No drivers are necessary,and people have done it.Specs:R31 modelTrackBall only120MB RAM10GB HDD1.20 GHz Intel CeleronPS.The pic is a R51 ThinkPad.PPS.Trackballs on laptops are the way to go.They should take my laptop as an example to theirs.

Asked by Derin 10 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

Why is my IBM thinkpad T42 so slow?

I just got a new hard drive for my t42 and reinstalled ubuntu but it is just extremely slow. I am using it in wireless mode, and I have multiple computers connected to my modem in my house. It takes about 10 minutes just for me to get to my IGOOGLE page. My laptop also keeps cutting in and out of connectivity. Thanks

Asked by acidbass 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

how do i fix my ibm thinkpad 600x , when i turn it on it gives error 8611 ? Answered

Sometimes gives 161 163 173 301 Etc etc, ive seen wud these codes mean, read a lot of instructions, but seriously, i need a REAL solution!

Asked by N.Khan 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

not a joke

What i do if i got my hands on a ibm thinkpad a really old one 

Posted by mr.militarymaster 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

how do you reset or remove power on password for ibm z60m

Asked by basscat 9 years ago  |  last reply 9 years ago

Reusing an old hard drive

I was recently disecting an old laptop (HP, roughly 6-8 years old) trying to find a use for the parts, as i have had very many replacements since I had stopped using that one. I removed a 10GB IBM hard drive. From the picture, you can see that it has a total of 44 pins. I am not sure if each pin goes to the same destination as the one opposite to it. i was wondering if there was any way that I could convert this into an external drive that I could attach via USB or something similar. If you have any ideas, let me know. Id love to find a use for this instead of just throwing it away.

Posted by phephq 10 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago

what can I do with a broken laptop monitor.?

The laptop that I have is a IBM Thinkpad that is broken but the monitor till works.

Asked by diaseabloton 9 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

What should I do?

I have an IBM ThinkPad Model 560 type 2640 made in 1996. And it won't boot. What should I do with it.

Posted by ry25920 10 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago

I need networking help PRONTO! Please help me

I'll try to make this a humanly short as possible. Long story short, I updated the networking software (it's ibm for my ibm thinkpad), and before I could see the thinkpad on my ibook, but not visa versa, now I can't see either. I really need to be able to network because I have some work to do (I do photoshoping alot) and need to have access between computers. Anyone able to help me?!? Forgot to add: Both computers are on wireless, on the same router, and same workplace, technically, this should work, why the fuck don't it?

Posted by Punkguyta 11 years ago  |  last reply 11 years ago


..guys, how could i add usb port to my old ibm thinkpad and anyone here can teach me how to convert a serial port to a usb port in a laptop. can i make that adapter at home? ..pls. help guys ..any instructables?, thanks

Posted by mij 10 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

how to change a laptop monitor screen into TV?

I have a "IBM Think-pad, i-Seriese 1445" Laptop monitor screen..... i want to change it into TV, please guied me how i can convert it into TV

Asked by bilalinpk 9 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

Can anyone help with IBM 4247 & 4224 Stepper Motor power requirements? Answered

Two years ago I hastily harvested many stepper motors, electronics, carriage bars etc. from 4247 and 4224 printers for a DIY CNC build. I never checked to see if any of the motors had power requirement info on them. Now that I'm ready to delve into the word of cheap/salvaged CNC I can't find anything about or on these devices anywhere. I even contacted the manufacturer (Minbea) and they were of no help. They said that they didn't keep information like that on record. If anyone can help me with links on where to find this info (in English please) I would greatly appreciate it. Minbea Type 23KM-K034-02 No T8Y13 Minbea MiniAngle Stepper (Astrosyn) 23LM-C058-05H Thanks.

Asked by CementTruck 4 years ago  |  last reply 4 years ago

The future of Computer Interface ?

Although this is a little dated already (Feb. 2010),  I thought this was rather interesting in how it took the IBM "table" computer,  and freed it from the confines of the table, as it were. Here, at this link, is the video showing this interface, ce / OS being demonstrated. 

Posted by Goodhart 8 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

what to do with old laptops?

I have two old laptops that are too slow to be of any real use. I have an old IBM thinkpad and an old dell inspiron. I was wondering if anyone had any cool ideas on what to do with either of these machines or their components? Thanks!

Asked by 10 years ago  |  last reply 9 years ago

Am just wondering if a high input to my subwoofer will spoil it?

My ibm comp spoilt its internal speaker. i think due to its high out power(its so loud). i use the same output to feed the sub woofer. i wondered if the high output will spoil it

Asked by mauricewarebee 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

Can anyone tell me how to get the Pin ID chart for this cam?

I have tried many different branches of IBM and none of them know how to do there jobs and I cannot get anyone who even knows what this cam is and they sold them. I have called and tried web sites all the way to China. Can anyone tell me where I can get the Pin ID chart for this cam? It is a Thinkpad Ultraport Camera 11 Model 02K5152 From IBM I am trying to set this cam up in my truck and get live video to record as I need. I want to take it apart and hide it in my truck and have it hooked up to my video recorder. I want to put it in the grill of the truck to record like the cops do. Any help would be greatly helpfull. Thank you to all

Asked by madrasi 9 years ago  |  last reply 9 years ago

I have 2 computers that open in BIOS only, I cannot get them to boot up to windows can you help PLEASE? Answered

The first one is a IBM 300GL 6287 97U Everytime I try to turn it on it boots to Bios only and will not go to windows. I set new administration password and a new power on password but it still will not boot up. I am at a lost with it. The second one is a Sony VIAO PCV-100 and it is doing the same thing. Does anyone out there have any idea on what I can do to fix them. I know they are both old machines but I would like to get them going and try to upgrade them when I get the money. The IBM was built in 1999 and I think the Sony was built around the same time. Can someone please help???

Asked by madrasi 9 years ago  |  last reply 9 years ago

. My question is :-Can you get free software to run a 3axis controller.for stepper motors Thanks, myfordmike Answered

Also I was going to use 10mm rolled threaded stud (1.5mmpitch) and make some zero backlash nuts( 2 nuts and a spring)  Does free software run on an ibm t43 laptop?

Asked by myfordmike 8 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago

How can I use my IBM Profile or my laptop LCD screen as just a monitor for my desktop machine? Answered

I have very limited space to work out of and would like do away with big monitor. Even more limited is money. But parts, inngenuity and creativity abound! I love to make cool stuff out of found crap. Can I use my IBM Profile, (flat screen with whole computer housed within the screen), as just a monitor for my desktop machine. (Compaq Pavillion, XP sp3)? Can I make a monitor out of my laptop LCD screen? ( Acer Travelmate- it fried due to frequent overheating, not sure yet what is good/bad internally, gets stuck trying to boot, screen is fine) What is essential to a monitors' functioning, (hardware, driver, software, emmulation)? I've researched the subject a little bit, but havent found definitively the minimum of parts or features I need to make it work. I found more info on how much more you can get it to do, other than just BE A SCREEN for my desktop machine, and most of the info seems to take for granted that the reader has done this kind of mod or adaptation before. I'm clever and have some skills but it is not my profession, just a DIY that interests and challenges me to DO IT, and it would give me back my work surface. So? Can it be done? Is it practical? Better ideas maybe? Thanx All.

Asked by ASTRALBURNER 9 years ago  |  last reply 9 years ago

OBIT: Jack Tramiel - Founder of Commodore - makers of the PET and C64

Just noticed that Jack Tramiel, an Auschwitz survivor, and founder of Commodore died on Easter Sunday. Commodore's computers were some of the first in the market - 5 years before the IBM PC, and before the first Apples. The Commodore PET was the first computer I ever touched. Commodore's C64 computer is known as THE fastest selling personal computer of all time.

Posted by steveastrouk 6 years ago  |  last reply 6 years ago

how can I hook-up an old black and white monitor to a video jack?

I have an old IBM black and white monitor, is there a way I can hook up a video jack to it so that it can display video signals from places like a vcr? if so, how?!!?

Asked by gorgo333 10 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago

Need to find a Controller Board kit for LG LCD display LP121SP

I have salvaged the LCD panel from an old IBM Thinkpad 570 Laptop and planning to use it with Raspberry pi. The Model and Technical details of the panel are as under: Make :                          LG LCD Inc., Korea Model Number :           LP121SP Panel Size :                  12.1 inches Dot Resolution :           800 (RGB) x 600 (SVGA) Pixel Configuration :     RGB Vertical Stripe Pixel Density :               82 PPI Aspect Ratio :               4:3 (H:V) Form Factor :               Flat Rectangle Display Pixel Pitch :                   0.3075 x 0.3075 mm (H x V) Active Area :                 246.0 x 184.5 mm (H x V) Orientation :                  Landscape type I want to convert this panel to use with Raspberry pi, but unable to find a suitable converter board kit. I have added few images also here for reference. Any help will be highly appreciated.

Posted by antoniraj 3 years ago  |  last reply 3 years ago

How could I make a rigid USB keyboard fold in half?

No one seems to manufacture a full size 104(?) key keyboard which folds (the way the first IBM Thinkpad's notebook board did) so as to fit in a backpack or notebook case. I do not like to type on those rubber roll up keyboards. Any ideas on how I could build a folding keyboard? Thanks

Posted by TAP119 10 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago

can the original intel Pentium be underclocked? and if so by how far?

I've been reading up on old laptops like the ibm poqet pc that could be run off 2AA batteries for months and i noticed i had an old hp sub-notebook siting around it could run dos easily but the old batteries give me an hour at best so basically I'm wondering if the processor can be underclocked to save juice thank in advance

Asked by clasic_traveller_diehard 10 years ago  |  last reply 9 years ago

Instructable Crisis! Need Part!

I’ve been working on my instructable project since the begging of December and I have successfully completed 99% of it and 80% of the instructable write-up. When I reassembled my laptop I discovered that I was missing a keyboard key! If anyone has a regular sized letter or number key for the IBM ThinkPad model please contact me. I will donate some cash via paypal and include your name as an honorable mention in my instructable! Thanks!

Posted by Gnaw 12 years ago  |  last reply 11 years ago

Optical reading of paper cards/tape? Answered

Hi everyone,  I wanted to know what would be involved in reading the position of dark marks on paper cards or tape, a la IBM. Something that can read the information from the card with things like pencil/ink marks instead of holes punched through it.  What would I need? Could I get away with basic LEDs, or would I need something more complex like a CCD from a scanner?  Many thanks!

Asked by DrRorschach 3 years ago  |  last reply 3 years ago

Best Laptop? Your Vote!

POLLSo as the title says.....What do you reckon is the "Best laptop" ?You can post the exact model of which you think is the best. Also do this :Best laptop in:Budget : ( answer)High spec : (answer)And what do you guys think is the best laptop brand?( can only choose from options listed ! )- Dell- Apple (macbook)- Sony VAIO- HP- Acer- Toshiba- Vadim- IBM- Gateway- Asus

Posted by Baron A 11 years ago  |  last reply 11 years ago

where can i find drivers for my motherboard?

I have recently formatted one of my computers and now i need to reinstall the drivers for the motherboard. i have already installed windows 7. but unfortunately i have lost the driver disk but i have been told you can find them on the internet but i am so far unsuccessful. what can i do please help. the motherboard only say IBM REV:2.4 

Asked by Hav0c 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

Can I connect a 2.4G Wireless cam to my Laptop´s Wifi?

I want to receive my wireless 2,4G battery powered camera with my laptop without using the receiver for home use, because this one needs externel power connection. My laptop (IBM Thinkpad T41) has a 2.4G Wifi mini PCI-card with IEEE 802.11 a/b/g. Is there any way to connect the camera to my laptop without using this external receiver? Thanks a lot, Randy

Asked by Randy_1881 6 years ago  |  last reply 6 years ago

I a trying to sell my old laptop, does anyone know how much an IBM thinkpad 600e is worth? Answered

I am selling my old laptop so I can buy an android tablet.  I want to sell it, but I have no idea how much it is worth.  Online their prices ranged from $20 to $200+.  Mine is used with slight cosmetic damage, but it has a dvd player and works great, except for the battery.  The battery doesn't hold a charge very well, but if you use it as a desktop, or spend thirty dollars on a new battery, then it would be fine.  I will see if I can post pictures soon. 

Asked by furrysalamander 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago

Help with building a mouse

Hello, i'm new here, i hope you guys can help me... i would like to build my own pc mouse, and i need some assistance on where to get PCB board built and electronics i will need. i would like to build four types 1. a USB mouse with a left/right buttons, tracking wheel, and small size joy stick like(just like the ones in IBM laptops)to be placed on top of the mouse. 2. another like number one but wireless 3. just like one and two, but with a ball on top... any help on where to buy the electornics will be great... thanks

Posted by velkropie 11 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago

Can I substitute capacitance on replacement capacitors?

I am trying to fix an IBM LCD monitor and even though I took electronics in high school and have replaces caps before I am not up on electronics enough to make design decisions. So, I would like to know or double check what an electronic supply store person told me which is that a 820uf 25v capacitor is replaceable with a 1000uf 25v capacitor. If the circuit being used on has an impact, these 3 caps sit on what  appears to be on or directly related to the power supply circuit as it is on the board that the power connector and transformer sits on.

Asked by Richman1 6 years ago  |  last reply 1 year ago

Reuse laptop screen

Hi I had the greates luck finding an old laptop screen in a dumpster at school (they're currently changing computers, dumping the old ones). When I got home I also found a Video to VGA converter, which made me think - can I somehow connect these two into a working screen for  let's say an old nintendo? Either that or I go back to find a compatible motherboard and videocard and rewire it somehow - but it most rather not. So, any ideas for how to make it work as a screen? :) Fact:  - IBM 12,1" TFT screen branded M360 - Konig Video to VGA converter Sorry for the bad images, Ipads camera kina sucks :)

Posted by Maxteria 6 years ago  |  last reply 6 years ago

Operating my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on my laptop.

Recently I bought a Samsung Galaxy Smart Phone - Samsung Galaxy Note 3 (N-900P).   I was told by my son that I could operate this smart phone on my laptop monitor.  as per his advice I bought a Samsung MHL HDMI Adaptor.   Unfortunately my laptop - IBM ThikPad does not have a HDMI port.   I tried to connect my smart phone through HDMI-VGA cable. I do not get the samrtphone displayed on my laptop.   Could someone guide me how I can connect my smart phone to my laptop and operateusing my keyboard and mouse.   I would like to use my smartphone as an external modem to my laptop. 

Asked by SundaraR 3 years ago  |  last reply 3 years ago

turning an internal laptop DVD drive into an external DVD drive?

Ok, so I have a laptop DVD combo drive from an old IBM laptop. I'm not familiar with the "plug" for laptop DVD drives. are they standardised like regular HDDs? eg ide/sata , etc. is there an adapter I can get to make an internal dvd drive into an external? I know you can get IDE to USB2 adapters for regular 3.5 and 2.5 ide HDDS and Regular DVD burners. years ago it seemed that DVD internal laptop drives were proprietry. has this changed? sorry, I'm not up with Laptop internal drives. sorry long question. my question again incase you have forgotten can I turn an internal laptop DVD drive into an external DVD drive?

Asked by altomic 9 years ago  |  last reply 3 years ago

Linux on 1994 laptop?

 I recently acquired a (free!) IBM thinkpad from 1994. I do not have a charger but got it to run by hooking a power supple to where the battery hooks up. The hard drive (a nice roomy 520 megs) does not work, but it does have a working floppy drive. Here is the Question: Is their any type of linux that can can boot from a floppy disk and run on a system like this: 50 mhz processor 20 MB of RAM, previously 4 MB. I found an unused 16 MB card under the floppy drive (?!) If there isn't one you know of, is their any version of MS-DOS that I can boot from a floppy and download for free? Thanks! Update: I found a 2.1 GB HD ($20) online, which could help. I won't order it yet, though.

Asked by dark sponge 9 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago