Geodesic Dome Materials

My friends and I plan on building a geodesic dome at a small park, but we're not sure what materials to use. Our criteria are:it needs to go up fastit would be nice if it was semi-portableit needs to be cheapit needs to be secure enough that it can't be vandalized/removedSuggestions, please? Thank you!

Topic by threecheersfornick 10 years ago  |  last reply 10 years ago


Raising a geodesic dome

Just thought I'd share a time lapse video I made last year (but just got around to putting it online) Two of my kids are involved with a local circus and last year, said circus bought a geodesic dome to use as a venue for shows. There was great excitement when it was delivered and put together for the first time. It seemed appropriate to record the momentous occasion, but knowing how long it was going to take, a normal video was out of the question. So I set up the tripod and camera and took photos roughly every five minutes. The first photo was taken just after 9am and the last one was taken just after 5pm. It's quite an interesting structure and so strong, they can rig the aerial apparatus from just about any point!

Topic by Twinmum 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago


geodesic dome hubs

Hi everyone i have been wanting to make a geodesic dome for a while now and i dont want to spend money ond conduiting which looks easy to do and all the angles associated with timber domes seem over complicated so i thought that pvc/ plastic pipe might be cheap enough though i find the hubs extremly expensive so i thought up a design that is in between almost all homemade hubs. the center of the hub is circulat like the pic and the bolts potrude at all apropriate angles then on the bolts is a rubber sleeve that snuggly fits into the inside diameter of the tube you are using then when you tighten the bolt the rubber is squished and pushes outwared on the tube so the hub stays on the tube just thinking that someone here might be able to improve the desighn and or make it. thanks for your ideas.

Topic by Slicerr2 6 years ago  |  last reply 6 years ago


Just another day at Instructables/Squid Labs with a giant inflatable Tyvek geodesic dome

Here, tetranitrate works on his next boundary-pushing project while menaced by an inflatable Tyvek geodesic dome build by Pete Lynn, of kiteboarding fame, for this year's Burning Man.

Topic by ewilhelm 11 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago


What material is best suited to produce good acoustics? Answered

I'm planning on building the Multi-Use Media Pod shown here on instructables, but I don't want to make it out of cardboard. I want to go a little high-end on this model, and in addition to making it bigger, I want to use a material that will produce the best sound and acoustics. What should I use?

Question by NANUman 8 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago


Home page most pop? Answered

What are the criteria to get into the most popukllar box on the home page - my post - geodesic green house rated 4.3 and over 100 views the top of the mort pop box no rating and 311 views ??  Don't get it.

Question by rickharris 7 years ago  |  last reply 7 years ago


Home Energy Monitor, Reduce Your Impact, Earth Day

  Home Energy Monitor Reduce Your Impact Earth Day The California Cooler Build a 60 Watt Solar Panel Start a Community Garden Composting Energy Efficient Home Design Ride Your Bike in Style Solar Water Heater Geodesic Dome Greenhouse Energy Saving Vertical Axis Wind Turbine Pallet Compost Bin Rain Water Collector

Topic by randofo 9 years ago


Best way to cut corrugated plastic?

On the day after the elections, I collected a bunch of corrugated plastic political signs that were going to be recycled. My plan is to turn them into a small geodesic dome, similar Nasa’s Hi-Seas dome for my daughter to conduct scientific missions in the backyard.Is the easiest way to cut these signs into the necessary triangles with a razor and a straight edge? Can I use a circular saw or skill saw to cut them faster or cut multiples at once?

Question by Erfunden 5 months ago


Any Maple alternatives?

I need a something that plots graphs (three-dimensional is better), solves differential equations and counts integrals - Maple would be ideal - plus I think that learning to use it is a nice constructive thing to do in the summer before starting university, but it costs a lot more than I can painlessly pay...  Any ideas? Probably some older versions are free or cheap, or there are any other programs? I looks like I'm only going to use it in the summer as they probably should give something to students... To be more specific, I'm trying to learn GTR and calculate some geodesics.

Question by gruffalo child 6 years ago  |  last reply 6 years ago


What is the cause of gravity?

A friend of mine MUSAB said that  two bodies attract each other because the electrons and protons of both their atoms attract each other, however, I don't think this is the case, I have heard from some where else that it is due to distortion in space time created by a mass and geodesics are formed and they bend towards the center of the mass due to which every other body which comes in its gravitational field tends to move towards its center and all that stuff I have studied in detail. So who is right? If he is wrong, then please also specify where is he wrong, I think that individual atoms can not attract each other because of charge because an atom, as a whole, is a neutral particle. Thanks in advance.

Question by universal-physicist 6 years ago  |  last reply 6 years ago


Instructables, Popular Science, and TreeHugger "Go Green!" Contest Results

Instructables, Popular Science, and [http://www.treehugger Treehugger] are pleased to announce the winners of the Go Green contest!The entries were fantastic- check the full list of projects as well as the winners for more great ways to green your life.Grand PrizeThe grand prize winner will receive a Breezer Liberty hybrid commuter bicycle with pedal-powered lights, an Instructables robot t-shirt, a brief write-up in a future issue of Popular Science, and a 1-year subscription to Popular Science magazine.Hydroponic Bog Garden (Water Recycling) by BiotankFirst PrizeEach first prize winner will receive a Solio Universal Hybrid Solar Charger (TreeHugger review here), an Instructables robot t-shirt, and a 1-year subscription to Popular Science magazine.Bicyle Power for Your Television by bdwhaleyGeodesic Dome Greenhouse by yes2techHow to MAKE PV Solar Panels by VIRONPortable 12V Air Conditioner --Cheap and easy! by CameronSSSolar Thermal Water Heater For Less Than Five Dollars by TheNaibSecond PrizeEach second prize winner will receive an Instructables robot t-shirt and a 1-year subscription to Popular Science Magazine.Build your own flat panel solar thermal collector by iwilltryCart Bike by zieakComposter (Drum Style) by jdlinkFree Air Conditioning by VygerGrow organic food without spending $ by gowithfloHack a Toilet for free water by gregorylavoieHow to save water in gardens and small-holdings: the Scrooge Bottle by KitemanMake an Evaporative Terra Cotta Beer Chiller by jolshefskyRecreate a Vanishing Ecosystem : The Eastern Vernal Pool by Tool Using AnimalThe Wind-up Headboard Reading Light by peterwbrownAll winners should watch their inboxes for a private message with prize-claim instructions.Thanks to our judges, who carefully read through all 63 eligible entries:arwen; canida; Dave Prochnow, PopSci; Doug Cantor, PopSci; ewilhelm; fungus amungus; Graham Hill, TreeHugger; John Mahoney, PopSci; Ken Rother, TreeHugger; Mike Haney, PopSci; noahw; numberandom; reno_dakota; seedlingproject; Shayne McQuaid, TreeHugger; stasterisk; T3h_Muffinator; TetranitrateFor more information on how we judged, click here for the full results.

Topic by canida 11 years ago  |  last reply 11 years ago


Summer Camp seeks proposals for ambitious collaborative project

Calling all Engineers, Designers, Sculptors, Builders, Videographers, Architects, Artists and Makers of all descriptions and disciplinesSUMMER CAMP SEEKS PROPOSALS FOR AMBITIOUS COLLABORATIVE PROJECTSBeam Camp requests project ideas for 2009 and future summers.You supply the plan and vision. We'll supply 100+ energetic campers and staff and 700+ acres of forest, mountain and lakes as studio, canvas and workshop. Submit your proposal to be Beam's 2009 Project Master. THE PROJECTEach summer Beam commissions a Project Master to design a unique large-scale collaborative endeavor that campers produce and enjoy. The Project can range from the conceptual to the structural. We are looking for big ideas that will challenge and excite our campers and staff. Our Project Management Team will work with the Master to "translate" the Master's project blueprint into the camp context.THE CAMPBeam Camp is a 4-week summer program (July 18-August 16) for boys and girls aged 7-17 in Strafford, New Hampshire. Beam Campers cultivate hands-on skills while exploring innovative thinking, design and the creative process. They transform ideas into artifacts and personal achievement into community success. Teams of campers work on different aspects of the Project each morning. In the afternoons, they participate in Domains, mini-courses in arts, athletics, science and nature studies.Project CriteriaMake it big.Don't limit yourself to "camp-y" themes.Construction can be a central component, but doesn't have to be.Past Projects:2005 The Nexus Canopy: a raised, 42' x 36' grid of wood and fabrics that the campers transformed from shelter to maze to movie theater to art installation to banquet space. Project Master: Fabian Jabro/Standard Architects2006 The Beam Fleet: seven wooden vehicles, designed, and built by the campers, equal parts kinetic sculptures, simple machines and rolling canvases. Project Masters: Steve Gerberich & Nathaniel Leib2007 The Beam Micro/Macro Domes: five geodesic domes based on the forms and structures of virus proteins, that became shelters, sculptures, playspaces and activity centers. Project Master: Caitlin Berrigan2008 Jungletopia: three tree-houses ring a 16-foot armature to form a play/contemplation space that bridges (metaphorically and physically) Beamers' imagination and craft with the forest environment. Project Masters: Jan Drojarski & Jon BockselFAQsHOW DO I SUBMIT A PROPOSAL?Go to http://www.beamcamp.com/project-proposal/ to fill out the Project Proposal form or send an email to brian@beamcamp.com.WHAT'S THE PROJECT BUDGET?We generally spend $10,000 on Project-specific materials including any necessary new tools/machines.WHAT ARE THE MASTER'S TIME REQUIREMENTS?Upon selection of a Project, Masters have until May 1st to create a blueprint or working plan for the project. We ask that the Master be available for at least two pre-camp planning meetings and join us for at least three days during the camp session.DO I GET PAID?Project Masters receive a $2,500 stipend plus reimbursement of travel costs. Proposals due: March 1, 2009.For more info on Beam: http://www.beamcamp.comFor further inquiries contact: Brian Cohen: brian@beamcamp.com

Topic by Brian Cohen 10 years ago  |  last reply 8 years ago


Amazon.com® and Instructables Science Fair Results!

Amazon.com® and Instructables are pleased to announce the winners of the Science Fair! The entries were sweet, and I personally learned quite a few new things. Check out all the projects here.Grand PrizeThe grand prize winner for will receive a USD $1,500 Amazon.com gift certificate, a custom laser-etched Leatherman Juice S2 multi-tool, and an Instructables Robot t-shirt.The Rubens' Tube: Soundwaves in Fire! by yourtvliesFirst PrizeEach first prize winner will each receive a USD $250 Amazon.com gift certificate, a custom laser-etched Leatherman Juice S2 multi-tool, and an Instructables Robot t-shirt.Build an antique style crystal radio by OhmWiimote Rubens Tube: Control Fire With Sound! (And a Nintendo Wiimote!) by ScaryBunnyManKitchen laboratory II: The CO2 trap by syribiaThe Hilsch vortex tube by thecheatscalcRunners UpThe runners-up will each receive a USD $25 Amazon.com gift certificate, an Instructables patch, and stickers.A simple mechanical resonance demonstrator by 5VoltHow to make plastic by aaPreparing your own thin layer chromatography plates (and then using them) by allanf0Make a Voltage Controlled Resistor and Use It by BioteleElectromechanical Transducer Out of a Polystyrene Conical Section! by BookburnMake Potato Plastic! by Brandon121233The Bio-Battery - Power for the future. (So easy a 10 year old can do it.) by chowdeshellMotor Speaker by guyfrom7upHow to make air muscles! by HonusMeasure the drag coefficient of your car by iwilltryBarbie Doll Electric Chair Science Fair Project! by jessyratfinkMake an Evaporative Terra Cotta Beer Chiller by jolshefskyBe a scientist: make your own force meter. by Kiteman8X10 foldable pinhole camera by lennybBuilding a better Guinea and Feather by Luke LuckGrowing Mushrooms: PF Tek by nakKelvin's Thunderstorm - Create lightning from water and gravity! by NK5Be a Scientist: Learn about Triboluminescence (or Lightning in your by RedNeckOreoLet's go green! Build a Solar Powered Parabolic Cooker! by WeissensteinburgGeodesic Dome Greenhouse by yes2techFamily CollaborationThese collaborating families will receive a matched set of Instructables Robot t-shirts and an acrylic Robot plaque laser-engraved with their names!The Bio-Battery - Power for the future. (So easy a 10 year old can do it.) by chowdeshellLaunch it: the Huffin' Hoopster by KitemanAll winners should watch their inboxes for a private message with prize-claim instructions.The following Instructables were rated high enough to be runners-up, but the authors already had a winning entry:Hack The Spy Ear and Learn to Reverse Engineer a Circuit by BioteleBuild a solar hot dog cooker by iwilltryMeasure the specific heat of water and other fluids by iwilltryBe a Scientist: map your skin by KitemanThe Chaos Machine (Double Pendulum) by Luke LuckKitchen laboratory: Proteins and Cheese making by syribiaMake Rheopectic slime in less than 15 minutes! (It is not Oobleck) by syribiaGive a big round of applause to our awesome judges who spent hours going through each project:Bill Burkland, CameronSS, canida, dan, dave spencer, ewilhelm, fungus amungus, jeffkobi, KaptinScarlet, lebowski, noahw, Peanut, turkey tek, viron, and zieak.From complete voting results, go here.Amazon, Amazon.com and the Amazon.com logo are registered trademarks of Amazon.com Inc. or its affiliates.

Topic by ewilhelm 11 years ago  |  last reply 11 years ago


Yuri's Night Bay Area 2007 Hosted at NASA* Ames Research Center - SUBMISSIONS DEADLINE EXTENDED TO MARCH 9

Please note that our email server was down this past week so we are extending the deadline for Art Installations until Friday, March 9, 2007. If your submission bounced please resubmit it again by emailing submissions@yurisnightames.netWe will contact all those submitting within a week of the submission deadline.Yuri's Night Bay Area 2007 Sofia Hanger 211, NASA Ames Research Center*, Moffett Field, CAhttp://www.yurisnightames.netFriday, April 13th, 20076:30 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. - VIP Event Hosted by Keynote speaker, Anousheh Ansari . The first privately-funded female space explorer!10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. - 3,2,1, Lift Off!, An all-night collective experience toward the Overview Effect. Art Installations and Science and Technology DemonstrationsMusic Line UpPlaid ( Warp Records, UK) Luke Vibert ( Ninja Tune, Warp Records, UK), Telefon Tel Aviv (Hefty Records, USA)Interactive Experiences and Second Life KiosksSponsors List To Be Announced Shortly Affiliate / Collaborating Organizations (Partial List)4c design studios - NASA* - Nexus - Space Generation Advisory Council - Yuri's Night - Zero Gravity Arts Consortium Yuri's Night World Space Parties celebrate humanity's first venture into space (by Russian Cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin). The event connects diverse communities to pay tribute to our shared global heritage in space exploration. Through one long simultaneous celebration Yuri's Night bridges national, cultural, generational and social barriers to ignite excitement about what is new on the horizon in space exploration and to remind us of how much more humanity is capable of. Yuri's Night Bay Area 2007 is just one of many worldwide parties sharing the same mission.How to ApplyPlease submit the following by Friday March 9, 2007:-Artist name, address, phone, email and title of artwork.-Philosophical Statement, as related to the Yuri's Night Bay Area 2007 Theme (See Below)-Documentation of work: image, video, and/or sound files -Space requirements and special needs-Current state of completion-Required crew-Power requirements-Time to set upYuri's Night Bay Area 2007 will be held on Friday, April 13th in the Sofia Hangar 211 and on the adjoining tarmac at NASA Ames Research Center*, with several thousand people attending. The sizeable combined indoor and outdoor space lends itself to large-scale installations. We are looking for art installations, interactive works, science and technology demonstrations, video, sound works, light works, and large scale sculpture. Geodesic domes will be installed on the tarmac to showcase smaller and more intimate works. Other activities at the event will include:- Music from world-renown international talent (coming from the UK and beyond) and video artists.- A sundown keynote speech by Anousheh Ansari, the first female private space tourist (recently returning from a 10 day stay on the International Space Station) and the woman who is largely responsible for making the Ansari X PRIZE project possible- An environmental "greening of space" sub-theme, manifested through the use of environmentally friendly biodiesel and vegetable oil-fueled power, compostable plates and utensils, and tree planting in the name of our guests to balance out carbon emissions.Please give special consideration to the following:Yuri's Night Bay Area 2007 is a celebration of humanity with a focus on space and technology, art and performance while honoring the historical nature of the space and the spirit of the people who once worked in and still inhabit the AMES Sofia Hanger 211, in which our event is hosted. Within the context of NASA AMES Research Center* we feel our contemporary relationship to space and sense the incredible possibilities for the future of human and robotic space exploration.Simultaneously, this place exudes a feeling of another time, a time of science fiction fantasy and early space exploration and its potential for fulfillment, some ideas made real, some not: rocket ships of the past, an International Space Station of the present and airships of the future, flying cars, and time machines, terraforming, robots, and settlements on other planets. We will share an interpretive journey into outer space starting with the arrival of 'space cadets' at NASA * Ames's Yuri's Night Spaceport who, after a communal 3-2-1countdown to LIFTOFF! will jettison into a magical journey through time and space, as we discover new communities, interactive art installations, science and technology demonstrations, performances and space art interwoven with simultaneous influences from the past, present and future educating us to new possibilities socially, ecologically and technologically. We will reach the zenith of our journey as we sense 'The Overview Effect', an unexpected gift given to many astronauts who travel into space when they gain a new profound insight and understanding of our planet Earth, when confronted with the presence of our world as seen from the distance of space. The results of this experience can reinforce personal sensitivity to environmental conservation and the greening of space and 'The Overview Effect' has the capacity to transform all patterns of human existence and evolution toward greater potentials in human diversity and creativity. With all 'space cadets' having experienced changed perceptions of space, time, sound, and weight all we will have the potential to transform the evolution of humanity as they experience a new dawn on planet Earth.In creating Yuri's Night together, we create a new narrative, a new science fiction for the future and given the spirit of Yuri's Night, our night, our dance is a dance of inspiration, joy and celebration!Special notices:Unfortunately, despite our desire to do so, we cannot accomodate traditional media in the form of paintings, drawings, or prints. No fire, explosives, or works that are potentially damaging to property or persons.Send application or questions to:submissions@yurisnightames.netMore information about Yuri's Night Bay Area 2007: http://www.yurisnightames.netGeneral information about Yuri's Night:http://www.yurisnight.net/2007/*References to NASA Ames shall not be construed as official NASA approval or endorsement of any non-Governmental or commercial entity or activity pending final legal approvals.

Topic by lannanh 12 years ago


Hydrophobic music, dubstep windchimes, Smash Smash Revolution and etc @ Knox Makers Build Night w/ MaKey MaKey!

Wow, what a month at Knox Makers! We were absolutely invaded by MaKey MaKeys at our hackerspace all throughout January. To start us off, we released a freebie project a little early to help out members and guests get some ideas, to drum up local support for our events, and to offer a fun + easy starter project for the other spaces participating: Oversized Music Chest This ended up getting featured in Electronics! It leaves a lot of room to add extra components and tote the MaKey MaKey around, and we turned ours into a musical advertisement for our first Build Night, a mystery hack night about music. Mystery Hack Night: Music! What a blast! Talk about a weird time.. One family brought a theremin and a circuit bending kit for kids; another group brought an amp and speakers, a suitcase of effect pedals and circuit bent instruments, and a 4 channel mixer; we had a random component table for open hacking; an acoustic and broken ukulele was converted into an electronic instrument; we had painters painting music instrument for the MaKey MaKey with conductive paint; there was a table with our hydrophobic drum pad, bananas, an eggplant, flowers, and a grappling hook all controlling a set of browser based drums through the MaKey MaKey; we had members hooking up tactile buttons and levers to MaKey MaKeys; and we closed with the weirdest jam session this side of Alpha Centauri with all the things playing all the sounds at the same time. Mystery Hack Night: Video Game Controllers! This was a fun night, and we had a few new people show up. We tinkered with a platformer adventure game called Fancy Pants Adventure, where we assigned each person one button. At one point, the whole table was controlling the game's protagonist. Somehow, we made it pretty far into the game, considering. A few people commented that this type of exercise seemed like a really useful team building exercise, so we might look at creating some tutorials with this in mind. We also had individuals and small groups testing out their own inventions and games, again revisiting concepts like conductive ink or simple conductive objects. A two person team tinkered around with some simple fighting games that only use one button for each player, there were people playing Tetris and other games with their inventions, and we again offered a random hack table with an assortment of items and components to rummage through. MaKey MaKey Build Night I: When MaKeys Attack.. We had a nice turnout for this event. This was an introduction to the basic concept behind MaKey MaKey, how to remap the beta v1.2 boards using the web remapper, different applications that make a MaKey MaKey naturally awesome to use, and a few sample projects. We opened up the floor to open hacking, and that day our Adafruit group buy had just come in. We were able to add to the random hack table some awesome components, such as: male/male and female/female jumper wires, various diffused LEDs, slow and fast cycling LEDs, conductive thread, flat LED panels, sewable LEDs, tactile buttons, and other items. We wrapped up and one of our newest members stayed late to craft a thin copper wire into a flat copper instrument using a mallet. He ended up using a breadboard with the MaKey MaKey and Wolfram software to write his own music program. As with our other Build Night events this month, we also had people working on side projects in the background which added to the creative energy of the room. For this event, one of our members tested out a Gocupi that managed to draw Rear Admiral Grace Hopper and Albert Einstein on the whiteboard in dry erase marker using continuous lines. MaKey MaKey Build Night II: Big Projects! We had a decent turnout for this event, but mostly the attendees were there for their own big projects unrelated to MaKey MaKey. We got a few MaKey MaKey projects in around good company, though. We had members working on a large geodesic Airolite boat, someone showed up to work on their 3D printer and print out their first scale model of a scanned person, our Facilities Director was able to get some critical inventory done, a couple members mounted new shelves that had been donated that day, and one member's daughter wanted to play around with hydrophobics. We also were able to get electronic musical wind chimes made that work very nicely with the MaKey MaKey, and the same member who tinkered with Wolfram software at the prior event made more progress on some of his own MaKey MaKey ideas. MaKey MaKey Build Night III: Advanced Reprogramming! This was one of the build nights I was most excited about, and we had a nice turnout. We walked members through reprogramming the older MaKey MaKeys using the MaKey MaKey sketch for Arduino IDE. We bested Windows and its infernal resistance to unsigned 3rd party drivers, and we advanced onward. We looked at basic reprogramming of the settings.h key bindings, and we also looked at other Arduino programming such as delay, Keyboard.print, Keyboard.press, Keyboard.release, and some other concepts. A father team duo that are also involved in a local high school robotics club showed up and schooled us a little on Arduino with some tricks they had up their sleeves, another father son duo showed up to experience the MaKey MaKey for the first time together and it seemed to blow their minds, and we talked about the new web remapping tool for the beta v1.2 boards. Mad Science Bingo For one of our educational outreach events, we attended hijacked bingo night at a local senior citizen community center. We let everyone have their bingo fun without interruption, but as bingo concluded we invaded with a MaKey MaKey, our hydrophobic drum pad, fruits and veggies, and some flowers. The senior citizens loved it and have invited us back. At one point, we had three participants record themselves singing into a Scratch program that we mapped to the flowers. The room erupted with laughter when the community center manager went to touch the flowers and they sang at her in her patrons' voices. She even lent her voice to be recorded, which sent the room into mad howls. We also made a chain of about dozen people between ground and the triggers. We didn't really invent anything unique here, but it was a fun bonus event for the community center patrons. We ended up tinkering around a little with hydrophobics and electronics. So far after all our events, we ended up with a few more Build Night projects: Hydrophobic Drum Pad (featured in Science and then Homepaged!) annoy friends with this party game: Wonky Pong Smash Smash Revolution ... black acrylic, conductive paint, and conductive thread Electronic Windchimes sewable Cardboard Feet DDR (featured in Video Games!) We've also set out our MaKey MaKey kits for space use now that our January Build Nights are over with. We have a few members with projects they are still working on at the space, a few projects that are still being documented to upload to Instructables, and a few people batting around their own ideas. If we come up with anything else, we'll be sure and update. A couple "lessons learned" here: Random hack tables are awesome. But.. if they are too chaotic and without the right presentation, these can be intimidating to beginners that may want more direction. Multiple Build Nights rule! But.. it is probably best not to hijack every Saturday of a shared workspace like a hackerspace. This could have been orchestrated a little better (my fault). Overall, this was a blast to participate in. Thanks to Joylabz and Instructables! PS.. with two features and one homepage, that gave us 1 and a half years of Pro. One got used, but we're giving away the remaining year of Pro and 3 months of Pro. The bounty: quick connect projects for MaKey MaKey. Ends 3/1 EST. You know what to do..

Topic by smalltortoise 4 years ago