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Bolt Action Rotary Magazine Gun (updated with internals) Answered

Alright, it's been a while, forgive me. I work in spurts of an hour or two every few nights. It's not quite finished, but it's at a point I'm comfortable showing. I'm also working with BM, so hopefully he can make some improvements on it before it's posted. 

This gun is the combination of two different goals I've had. First off, I always wanted to make a bolt action. I came up with the idea for the modern bolt action long ago but was beaten to the punch. So since then, as others have made their own bolt actions, I still struggled to make one up to my own standards. I wanted something sleek and compact with a removable magazine. 

Second, I went off on a little tangent while building, which then turned into its own project: a rotary magazine. While it's been done before, I don't know if it was ever successfully used in a gun. It's more about the novelty than the practicality, but what it does do is give you more storage in a compact design and act as a decent foregrip. I wanted to make it a decently usable. At first I thought of making just some cruddy gun to show off the concept as a usable magazine, but then I decided I may as well go the full nine yards and make it perform well. 

So this is what I ended up with. I don't have a real name for it yet, but I've considered calling it the Barackuda, a portmanteau of Barack (Obama) and barracuda because...well why not. I wanted to keep it as compact as possible, so I used a barrel similar to my Oodassault 3 series and a stock connection similar to my PDR. The stock is a bit long compared to the body of the gun, so it may look awkward, but I wanted to give at least enough room to aim the gun without sticking the pin into your eye. The blue connectors in the stock stop the bolt right after the trigger engages. The bolt is somewhat typical. I like how it sits flush with the back of the gun rather than looking like an extension on the back of it. The handle isn't amazing, just a variation of my tried and true handle I've come to like. The trigger also isn't amazing, and in hindsight, I want to block a bit further back still, but it works for the limited space I've got.

The magazine on the other hand is magical. Go look at my last topic for details on its operation. This version is for yellow rods. I've added a rotary lock and band. When the middle rod is pushed toward the trigger (like in the pic), it's locked. It can securely contain 10 usable yellow rods while locked, though it can load up to 12, the top 2 can fall out. You insert it into the gun by pressing the top two red rods at an angle into gaps in the grey connectors at the front, then rotate the magazine, slightly pushing in, until you get the white rod in the gaps of the yellow connector. Finally, you push in the middle red rod by the trigger all the way forward to unlock the magazine. 

Edit (9/10/2015): Made my adjustments and now I'm mostly satisfied with the weapon. Here's the video.

Discussions

It would be great to get some instructions I want to see if I could build this Mag into a Bullpup.

Yeah, sorry, I kinda neglected getting instructions. I'll be busy after work today and over the weekend, but I'll try to get some pictures soon.

That'd be interesting. I was playing with the idea of making a bullpup version of this gun myself. But I'd probably make it too flimsy by that point. I'd like to see where you take the concept. The magazine isn't all too complicated, I could at least rip open the side quick and show you the insides.

Great! I want to build this gun first so I can see how everything works before trying to make a bullpup. Some pix with the side ripped off would be great I can build from those.

Decided I'd get pictures first thing getting home. I've updated with internals.

Fair enough. The stock isn't very important, just what I sorta threw on there, so I'm not going to bother with pictures for it. I'll definitely get some closeups of the open side layers, magazine, and bolt though. And I hope you can figure out a better trigger and feed ramp. With more room from a bullpup, I assume it should be easier.

For kicksies I added another pair of bands finally. Such an annoying process and definitely not something I'd want to do on the fly at a war. Sadly, my fears about yellow rods still held. They do get more range, but it's a crap shoot whether you'll actually hit what you're aiming at.

I'm finally getting my fill of the gun, so if I can't think of any other improvements to make, I'll get internals as I deconstruct it to start another project.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention I also figured out how to adapt a vertical magazine for my weapon, though it would look ugly and in my opinion, it wouldn't even be as practical as a rotary magazine. Instead, I'd rather make a speed loading tool for the rotary mag so it's not as much a pain to reload.

So how far does it shoot?

That's what I hate about yellow rods. Best suited for a pistol, since yellow rods are so inaccurate they don't need much range. Better to have a good ROF with rods, I suppose.

Didn't measure, only fired it inside the house. It was pretty inconsistent though. About as much as you'd expect for a bolt action, but not quite as good on account of a bit of wasted pin.

What you been working on? Haven't seen anything lately.

I have not been working on anything. I never have been able to build easily. Each build is time consuming, and the process is not at all fun for me. Joining ibles and deigning my own builds kinda killed it for me.

Maybe I'm just a little tired of the whole business. I might be back someday. With posts, I mean.

Needless to say, I enjoy chatting about K'nex on ible's, and all that, and I will keep very active with comments and such.

I know what you mean. I was not really making any thing for a long time but then I just got back into it and get on a roll and make lots of guns and then I hit a dry spot with no ideas. But I just give it some time and get sparked with a new idea and build it. Hope you can keep posting stuff a really like your style.

I'm workin' on a collaboration with TD right now, just so you know.

Depressing. =/ Hope you at least keep building other people's creations.

I know. :(

On the bright side, I was thinking of an idea. So I built KK's TR, and it's great. I shot 304 (I counted) rods through it, and the only issue was that a spacer fell off. The reloading, is still less then ideal. I was getting 100+ feet with oodammo, and fair rate of fire.

Now that is fine and dandy outside, if you can hide somewhere and reload. But indoors? No.

The most obvious gun to be is the WOW, but I don't like all the cut pieces and glued trigger. LOL, I don't think I even have enough pieces to build it.

Also, Oodammo is not ideal in it. It's very nice they built it so it can handle oodammo and yellow rods, but the oodammo magazines seem slow to reload.

Now here is MY idea. How about a oodammo carbine? I set one up about a month ago and it was great. No cut rods, lots of power, and a good charging handle.

I like oodammo. So do you. We both like oodammo.

Now your oodammo pistols are great, but they don't have CRAZY power, which is fine. But the pin can be pulled out the back of the gun, and that means trouble when you are trying to shoot people as fast as you can. When I tried to let people us Viper, they kept pulling the pin out of the back of the gun. Together we can solve that.

The solution is a pin guide, and with a charging handle, we can justify the use of all that bulk. Note that I say "We." If you read to the end of this little novel you can find out what I mean by that.

"Why didn't you post that carbine?" you say. "It would have been cool, and better then you whining about being tired of playing with pieces of plastic."

Well, the magazine blew up. Lots. And I hate that, and I have always been bad with building oodammo magazines. You are really good with oodammo magazines and clips. I'm not. Making sense yet? Man, I like writing.

So perhaps by now you have noticed my subtile hinting. "We," "Together," and "Both."

Yeah, you got it. I wanna put out a collaboration. I have build the handle, trigger, and stock, you build the oodammo clips and magazine. Then we figure out the stuff in between.

I don't care if you are a slow builder. I am too, in fact. Yay.

Think about it. It may work. And If you won't take me up, I might just have to copy and paste this novel onto a topic and find someone who is interested in it. Perhaps I could snag Jared, he might be interested.

Scrolling through that, I got lost for a moment because I couldn't find the reply button, remembering they're put all the way at the top which I had to go find again. =P

Sounds good and fair. So at the moment you only really need Oodammo magazines? Yeah, that shouldn't be too difficult. And I see what you mean in how I don't have like a pin stop, so a pistol is a little more difficult to use. Plus a stock and charging handle of some sort certainly helps.

:)

Well, you can sure help with the whole gun. Tell me when you're ready. I suppose that won't be until you post the bolt action, but that's fine with me.

I'll try to get it done sometime this week. Though in hindsight, it's a quirky gun that I think could be improved. I'll post internals and then if someone else wants to make instructions, they can. I really hope someone could come up with a better trigger for example.

I might be interested in that. Looking forward to the post

Cool, hope you build it. I'll be helping Corgi with a project soon, so I'll deconstruct the gun sometime before. I don't like not having a gun built at any given time, though, so I might hold off until he starts building, which might not be until next week. But we'll see. I did say I wanted to get pictures this week.

Added video and updated picture. I'll get internals soon-ish.

I really like your video! It is really much better quality then most K'nex videos. It seems the gun turned out really cool, and your work on it payed off! It looks pretty sharp, like most of your guns, still a little bit flimsy looking though. As far as I can tell, it is sturdy enough.

Also with those two bands it is shooting pretty good.

Thank ye. Better if only because I tend to know exactly what I want to talk about beforehand. Still messed up more than I wanted to, like forgetting to unlock the mag and then messing up the third draw so the trigger didn't set. =P
Sturdy enough. As long as its resting position is held together, I tolerate a bit of flex in my guns. You know me, I just rather have a compact gun than a brick. But I figure someone might try out the rotary magazine in their own gun.
Yellow rods are iffy. I was only shooting it, like, 8 feet at best? For the most part it shoots pretty directly for a decent ways, but yellow rods tend to spin out pretty fast, and I'll get that occasional odd shot where it just comes out spinning. Maybe I'll stack up another pair of bands and take it for a test outside.

Anytime. :)

We all mess up, and those little mistakes you made don't take away from the video in the least.

I agree with that. I can stand some flex in a gun. What I hate is when I bring a gun to my shoulder and the stock bends. Ugh. I have tried to build brick guns, but the never turn out. Then I have to take them apart and that can be difficult.

I know you were not far away, but it seems like the rods had a lot of power behind them. I'll guess you get 60 feet angled with four bands.

Didn't think so. In this case, I wasn't too worried about making the gun look reliable. As long as it's informative.

Yeh, especially because people tend to use odd angles on their stocks to make them more realistic, can be hard to keep them sturdy. Mine isn't great at all, but there's only so much I could do. I'm surprised it even holds up at all given there are only two connection points with small bridges. I dislike making big guns, takes a lot of time and can be tedious making repetitive patterns. If I had the extra pieces, I thought about extending the barrel on this, though. Might make for a cool looking rifle, like something out of Borderlands.

Yeah, it was surprising how well they seemed to fire at close range. But like I said, I wanna see how well they do outside. It is a bolt action gun, but I didn't really try to maximize power.

Anywho, what you working on?

I have been working on and off on various things. My building skills come and go in short bursts.The other day I thought about a TR8, but I didn't build one. Also I built some single shot prototypes that I didn't like. Also worked on a compact repeater and that didn't work.

Maybe next I'll try a shotgun that works like some of those knex grenades, with spacers on a rod with rubber bands pushing them forward, but blocked by a Yclip snapped on the end of the rod. I could build a little frame for the shells to click onto, and then the trigger would snap off the y clip. It is difficult to describe what I mean, lol. To reload you would just remove the empty grenade/shell and snap another one in.

A couple years ago I tried something like that, but there were no removable shells. It shot a LOT of spacers like 40 feet. I think I could build on that could be used in a indoor war.

We could use more shotguns. Though I think we should put more emphasis on repeating shotguns than single shots. As always, good luck with whatever you do. Just don't give up. You're one of the few building regularly.

True, but with my idea reloading would be fairly quick to reload, as there would be no pin to pull back, just load a shell and shoot. Of course the gun would not be a primary, but more of a weapon that could be operated under cover, and then a faster firing gun could be used if the fighting got to close. Also, being able to come up with different loads of different spacers would be cool, i.e. some grey spacers for range, with some blue spacers thrown in for a better pattern.

KK's TR8 shotgun is pretty neat, the one with the shotgun turret. I got good enough range, with a lot of little rods flying around, but so slow to reload. It could work if the turret could change out quickly. That would be pretty easy, but who has enough grey clips to build several of those shot turrets? Here is the video, in case you have not seen it.

Fine and fair. It'll be an interesting weapon to be sure.

I just think we haven't really put enough serious consideration into primary shotguns. K'nex guns are inaccurate. No matter how much range you give them, they're simply not suitable for hitting moving targets at a distance. I hope more people focus on making usable shotguns instead of trying to maximize range.

LOL I was messing around with the idea, and I don't think it is going to turn out. We will have to see about it.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Since rods are inaccurate, why not shoot a lot of them?

Now I will say, guns with fin ammo can be accurate. But they really do lose accuracy at long distances. The problem I see with the shotgun, is outdoors. Unless you are shooting yellow rods, you are going to loose half a dozen rods per shot. But indoors, a repeating shotgun with a charging handle or pump could be devastating. I may have to see what I can do with shotguns.

This

https://www.instructables.com/id/SLIM-Knex-Shotgun/

Was very good when the barrel was stuffed with like, ten green rods, standing vertically. It really shot well. A repeating version would be nice, or even a break action with that as the barrel.

Well, for that reason, fin ammo is typically banned at wars. And yeah, I suppose. White rods wouldn't be too bad for contrast but I wouldn't be fond of them as ammo.

I played with the idea of shells once upon a time. It's far too crude for my liking now, but at the time I think it held either 6 or 8 green rods at a time and could individually be loaded through a weird process, like breach loading. I realized my shell was scalable horizontally, so I thought about making a rack of chambers and trying to get that to repeat. It was far above my skill level at the time. I also had a magazine design going to stack them vertically, but obviously it'd be huge and hold few shells, plus the ejection system would be a challenge.

Anyway, do continue working on shotgun concepts. I can throw a couple ideas at you if you need them, but I'd like to see what you figure out on your own.

DSCF0188.JPG

That pistol looks neat! I would probably try a carbine instead of a pistol if I build a shotgun.

If you have any other gun ideas, feel free to tell me! I have a difficult time sticking with one concept at a time so I work on a couple things at once.

I know, I'm a bad person. Still haven't updated the photos or gotten a video. Just keep getting busy. Might find time after work today but I'm not 100% on that as my roommate and I usually go biking on Tuesdays. Anyways, to summarize updates since my first photos:
-Added functional sights
-Changed feed ramp to something stiffer to load but more reliable. You can change this as desired.
-Changed how magazine snaps in by the trigger so it sits flush with barrel
-Adjusted the trigger to be a little more frictionless, made a new band mounting point too
-Changed handle and stock connection to be a little more aesthetically pleasing
-Added different bolt block to the stock
-Changed the bolt to allow bands to go through it
-Changed a white rod to a blue rod in the middle of the barrel to give a structurally stronger mounting point for the pin band

So for all intents and purposes, the gun is finished and works fine. I may adjust the stock to look better, but that's entirely a user customization and not essential for the function of the gun. If not a video, I'll at least try to remember to get updated pictures tonight, probably some internals.

Finally got the video. Uploading now. Got tired of putting it off so I just kept the one I made the least mistakes in and rolled with it. So I'll be honest in saying the trigger block is finicky. For the sake of a novelty gun, it works, though I'd like it improved before posting. I'll update the thread with a link when the video is done uploading and then I'll grab some pictures.

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Knarez

2 years ago

Swagger as hell man, really neat.

To expand on that..

Would really like to see a vid as you mentioned!

Well thanks. What brings you around these parts?

I actually made a gun yesterday, wrote up a forum topic and everything. The softban system hides topic posts I guess, so I linked it in the most current war thread. Here thoo
https://www.instructables.com/community/Old-hobbies-die-hard-Made-a-TR-yesterday-82415/

Actually just found your post in the war thread and replied. Yeah, the system always annoyed me, seems like it can take upwards a day or two before forum topics finally show up.

How's this project coming along? I want one :>

I can get pictures. I'm basically divided on two different feed ramps because I'm picky and give myself so little room to work with. One is stiffer to push up but more reliable, the other very easy but barely holds the ammo. You're an expert with bolt actions, perhaps you could fix it up.

Long story short, I stayed home last Wednesday and tried to get a video, but I was sick and I still kept messing up so again I got frustrated and gave up. Sorry, I want to get the video out of the way soon.

Just give us the video even if you mess up in it. I would like to see it. Hope you're feeling better!