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Electromagnet Help! How to Make a Small but very Strong Electromagnet??? Answered

I need you help smart people of Instructables!
I need to make a small Electromagnet, that uses minimum power (by that I mean the battery), but still has to be very powerful. I have a couple of questions that I need you to help me answer:
  • Does the number of coils that is wound to the metal bar effect the strenght of the electromagnet?
  • Does the wire gauge (20,24,28,30,34,36 wire gauge) make a difference is the strenght of the magnet?
  • Does the voltage I supply to the coil effect the Electromagnet?
  • What type of battery is best for an Electromagnet (AA, AAA, C, D), and what voltage (1,5V, 3V, 4,5V, 6V, 9V) ???

Here is the thing, I need to make the Electromagnet super strong but taking up the minimum of energy, for example, just 1,5V. The things that are not important to me (doesn't play a factor in my device) is the number of wire winds to the metal rod and the wire gauge!

So is it better to just make 1 or more (3,4,5,6...) layers of wire winds???
Is it better to use thinner (36 gauge) or thicker wire (24 gauge)???

Thank you a lot!
Stanislav

Discussions

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The_Vinninator

9 years ago

thinner is always better
go for a few layers; too many will take away from the conductance of the copper
higher volts = better
I'd go for nine if I were you
but listen, here's the thing
if you really want power for a split second, you might want to try to discharge current from a flash capacitor into the coil
(a flash capacitor is the kind found in the digital cameras)
that will give you a really strong jolt of magnetic tug

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comodoreThe_Vinninator

Answer 9 years ago

Hmm, that sounds like something i need....I need a strong magnet flash, but it has to happen like 1-2 times in a second...will it be enough to charge the capacitor? OK, nine turn....finally, some exact data! How thin would you go 32,36 gauge? Thanks The_Vinninator!

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The_Vinninatorcomodore

Answer 9 years ago

sorry, I didn't mean nine turns I meant nine volts but don't just limit yourself to that if you can combine batteries, that would be the best option your best bet would probably be to wire up a few nine volts in parallel what you would do is have more than one capacitor actually, can you tell me what you're using it for? that way, I can give you the best recommendation you want to go thin, but not so thin that it's resisting the current either 32 or 36 should work about the same anything else?

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comodoreThe_Vinninator

Answer 9 years ago

Well, I posted this question for a lot of reasons, got a big use in lots of my projects... But, right now I want to make an electromagnet inductor...whit a solenoid and a strong electromagnet.... the electromagnet goes into the solenoid and I use a bush button to turn on and off the electromagnet inside the solenoid and induct current....

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The_Vinninatorcomodore

Answer 9 years ago

in that case, I'd just go with what I told you a few nine volt batteries in parallel should work and ya... also make sure whatever you wrap the magnet around is clean and you don't want to have too many layers of wire because that brings the wire AWAY from the core would it be possible to avoid all this and just use rare earth magnets?

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comodoreThe_Vinninator

Answer 9 years ago

would it be possible to avoid all this and just use rare earth magnets?
  • well, yes, but I am working on a device and I need an electromagnet...so in this case no, but in other cases yes....
Thanks a lot! You really helped! :D
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Kabous123456789comodore

Reply 7 days ago

... I'm using a small neodymium with a nail attached to it, the moving part will be just the sealed aircoil moving closely around that nail; it seems quite strong that way with a 10volt 380 milliamperes charger(for an old laptop or something like a phone or chess computer board thingy.
I want it to vibrate mány times a second though, so I'm thinking of using a radio signal reciever and sending it some buzzing sound or music with a transmitter to make it vibrate ... Miniaturize thát and use it in a construction to make small very light wings flap up and down to power some kind of mechanical flying insect or bird
A problem will be to have a small battery on-board with a circuit that produces the higher voltages -something like a 1.5volt battery to produce 30-60Volts(I don't know whether that is even possible, though I can imagine that where there are enough amps it is possible to double the volts many times - maybe by inductance somehow?)
I guess I can just try a switching mechanism for creating 'vibration' powering the wings

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The_Vinninatorcomodore

Answer 9 years ago

that's what I'm here for, bro *cyber high-five anything else, just pm me!

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comodoreThe_Vinninator

Answer 9 years ago

OK, if i have more questions and I probably will I will PM you or leave a question on your orange board...

Just 1 more question! :D
  • How many volts can I get from electromagnet induction, if I had a small coil whit more turn, thinner wire and a very strong electromagnet that is supplied with 9 V???
Thanks!
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The_Vinninatorcomodore

Answer 9 years ago

how many volts? It sounds like what you are saying is how much inductance (magnetism) can you get... inductance isn't measured in volts, it's measured in gauss I don't know how much gaussometers go for... honestly, almost ANYTHING can affect how much strength you get from the electromagnet don't expect to be able to lift a few pounds, but at the same time, if you make it really well, you might just be able to it's really too hard to say

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comodoreThe_Vinninator

Answer 9 years ago

No,sorry, you didn't understand my question... When I put an electromagnet in the coil and start turning it on and off...how many volts do I get from the secondary coil???

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ArtG1comodore

Answer 3 years ago

that directly depends on the number of winding the two coils have relative to each other.

If the seond coils has more windings then the inducer, the voltage goes up.

Double the windings (number of layers) will basically double the voltage. The if the wire is wider than the inducer this will increase the amps.

I'm not completely curtain of the proportions, but I think it's roughly direct. That is, double windings = double voltage; and double thickness = double amps. This all assuming the impedance (coil resistance) doesn't make a big impact.

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The_Vinninatorcomodore

Answer 9 years ago

O that's what you meant... well, you would get the amount of volts in the power source minus the amount of resistance in the first electromagnet (you can test this with a multimeter) assuming you put it in series if you wire 'em up in parallel, you'll get the same amount of voltage in both (not taking into consideration any other factors)

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The_Vinninatorcomodore

Answer 9 years ago

sure thing I used to work with electromagnets all the time in science projects

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alexhalfordThe_Vinninator

Answer 9 years ago

I'm sorry to interject but inductance is measured in Henries. Gauss is the unit of magnetic flux density.

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The_Vinninatoralexhalford

Answer 9 years ago

you're probably right about that sorry but I don't really understand the difference care to explain?

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alpha55The_Vinninator

Answer 8 years ago

hi Vinninator,

i've a problem with electromagnet, its rise time is 100 milli second while i need something around 100 micro second, i'm using steel nut 16mm dia as core, wire is awg 24, and resistance is around 10 Ohms
could you help me how to reduce the electromagnets rise time.

thanks

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ArtG1alpha55

Answer 3 years ago

since you already made the wire, I guess saying thiner is a bit late, so increase the voltage.

An easy way of thinking about it is to use water instead of electricity for thought purposes.

water pressure = voltage

water flow = current

resistance = resistance :)

you need to fill the pipe as quickly as possible to the currect pressure (same really in the end), so you need greater flow.

You will reach max a lot quicker if you increased pressure or flow, but only to the same pressure of your water pump.

Going back to magnets:

Increasing volts or amps will to about the same thing, but if you increase voltage, your max force will increase as well as the speed of increase.

So increasing eather will do, but voltage will allow for more.

You can see this quickly if you connect 9v batters to each other. One time only 2, the next time use 5 or more. There will be an ovious differance. Connected in series, the voltage is increase and amps remain the same. Parellel is the oposite. 3 x 9 = 27v and so on.

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ArtG1ArtG1

Answer 3 years ago

PS

Too many volts will start to get dangerous, so get nervous and use electric safety if you really try the 5 or more. I did it up to 120v for my electro magnet test :D

And yes... I was nervous.

Make sure to stay that way when the emotions subside. I can kill you.

Even though amps are the killer (the actual flowing of electrons), they still use the punching power of voltage to break through skin resistance and reach the organs and kill.

Don't think it's still safe if you are dry with the higher levels of voltage. You cannot safely keep increasing volts at the same amps or lower. Be safe.

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alexhalfordThe_Vinninator

Answer 9 years ago

Inductance is the property whereby a circuit opposes a change in current. When it experiences a change in current it will produce a 'back EMF' or that will oppose the change. One example of the use of this is a starter coil in a petrol engine (diesel works by compression). A high current from the battery flows through the inductor, when this current is cut off, the inductor generates a high voltage in an effort to maintain the current. This high voltage pulse is allowed to arc over the spark gap and this ignites the petrol. The magnetic flux density is basically the strength of the magnetic field. S you can measure the 'strength' of a magnetic field at a particular point in Gauss (the Tesla is also a commonly used unit). AlexHalford

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ArtG1alsports2000

Answer 3 years ago

You can always make an electromaget stronger, but Earth magnets are dangerously powerful. If all you know are the regular ones, be a bit nervous the first time you handle a rare earth magnet, or you could break it or even get a dangerous pench.

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alsports2000The_Vinninator

Answer 7 years ago

Greetings Vinninator: I am in the process of building an electromagnet and would like your opinion on the materials I am going to use. I am going to use a u-shaped metal from an old lock that is long enough to use instead of a nail. I am also going to use a D battery and the wire looks like a telephone wire and it also appears to be insulated. I've read that insulated wire tends not to get hot as fast as other wires, I don't know if that is true, will see. So, what do you think???. Thanks. AL.
P.S. I saw a video of someone who used an electromagnet to pick and drop objects: How was that done??. Thanks. AL.

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StevenB155

7 weeks ago

The biggest factor in producing a strong electromagnet is the use of a core ferromagnetic material with large magnetic permeability around which your choice of wire is coiled. I suggest the use of mumetel such as that attached to the super-strong magnets inside computer hard drives. But, if that is not available, try testing the pull strength of a super magnet upon various other available materials. No matter which ferromagnetic material you are considering, test and make sure it is one that does not retain any magnetism once the super magnet is removed. Also, the strongest configuration of an electromagnet has both the North and South poles exposed to the same attracting surface, (ie. U-shapped?). Also, the attracting surface is best composed of at least the same high magnetic permeability as that used in the electromagnet core.

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RonM23

2 years ago

I am interested in elector-magnets using a closed loop containing mercury warped with copper wire to induce a magnetic field within. By my research the mercury should spin as per the multiple coils (DC current) within this circular tube. I postulize that this would constitute an electric generator in reverse of the norm, That is the stationary elector-magnets in the common generator will move in the form of the mercury going around in the tract. The spinning wire which is rotating rapidly on the normal generator will be stationary on mine. These are the coils warping the tube containing the mercury. So I have been in my head trying to see magnetic fields and propose a question to the ether's, what does my 2 ring, 16 rare earth magnets magnetic field look like in 2 dimension

?

mag 03.jpg
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ChuckF21RonM23

Answer 2 years ago

Laboring purposefully and diligently towards directing powerful forces. Forces that are bounded by, and determined by, laws of nature; whereby execute a set coarse of actions yet, of these actions, we've only the understanding and awareness of a portion of the entirety. Laws of attraction are so often quietly joining like components together, though not as often likely to receive the credit for these actions.

Sorry, I must confess that I don't have any information for your project, though I was compelled to reply due to a persistent, yet vague, desire to experiment with mercury, magnetism, and electricity. It has become a distraction that disrupts my concentration on any given task. When that occurs I find myself conducting experiments in my head with the hopes of visualizing changes and results. Hence, I'd be very interested in obtaining updates and information or videos in relation to your project. I wish you luck and success, always imagine and expriment.

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RonM23ChuckF21

Answer 2 months ago

I will try to explain what I was attempting and what I
wished to measure.

Imagine
a circular tube (like flexible & transparent fuel hose1/2 inch inside
diameter) where one end is bent around to meet the other end, about 1 foot
radius.Inside put mercury but fill only
25% of the inside volume. Now the next step is where I quit.Start wrapping copper wire to make an
electric magnet around the tube containing mercury.Here I can give a few tips.

  • 1)You
    will be using DC current with high voltages (vary low amps).I saw a electro-magnetic generator using
    about 70 standard 9V batteries, in-line affixed to a good sized plywood board
    for example.So think high voltage.
  • 2)You will need multiple electro-magnets, the
    more the better.When wrapping the wire
    always wrap the same direction on all magnets.Special wire is needed for this, ask at your electric supply store. They
    make special wire just for this.If you
    decide to wrap several layers in your magnets, wrap until you get to the end of
    your magnet then bend the wire and go straight back to the beginning to begin
    the next layer (always wrapping in the same direction.
  • 3)The
    distance between each magnet should be about 0.25 the length of the magnet.
  • 4)Continue
    around the tube with mercury until you meet up with the first one you wrapped.
  • 5)If
    you have been connecting the magnets you will make one complete circuit going
    through all the wraps on all the magnets.
  • 6)It
    should look;-===+-===+-===+-===+ -===+
  • 7)Note
    magnet #1’s + is near magnet 2’s – This presents an attractive force.It continues around the loop.
  • 8)Mercury
    is magnet while in a magnetic field.The
    mercury in the + area of the magnet will be acted upon towards the – pole of
    the next magnet.When the voltage runs
    through all the magnets will cause the mercury to rapidly spin within the
    closed system tub that it is in.
  • 9)I
    predict that a ferrous like liquid (mercury) will generate electricity the way
    normal generators make it except now the magnets are spinning and the wires are
    stationary.
  • 10)Find a way to measure it.
  • 11)The reading will be independent of the
    startup (running) DC power from all the 9V batteries
  • 12)Calculate the power used to the power gain
  • 13)If it is wired a wright and combine the
    two currents you should find your 9V batteries are being charged and you have
    power to do mechanical work.

I would like to here
someone do this.My inner self knows it
works.Happy wrapping.Ron Medcalf (36

ChuckF21

I apologize for the length of time which went by since you commented. I got frustrated and went on to other distractions. I didn't complete my experiment but you, if you want are, welcome to.






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nerkedRonM23

Answer 1 year ago

Self-taught British scientist Michael Faraday (1791 – 1867) was the
first to understand what these discoveries implied. If a magnetic pole
could be isolated, it ought to move constantly in a circle around a
current-carrying wire.

In 1821 Faraday set about trying to understand the work of Ørsted and
Ampère, devising his own experiment using a small mercury bath. This
device, which transformed electrical energy into mechanical energy, was
the first electric motor.

This apparatus is the only original surviving example made by Faraday the following year after his discovery in 1822.

The motor features a stiff wire which hang down into a glass vessel
which has a bar magnet secured at the bottom. The glass vessel would
then be part filled with mercury (a metal that is liquid at room
temperature and an excellent conductor). Faraday connected his apparatus
to a battery, which sent electricity through the wire creating a
magnetic field around it. This field interacted with the field around
the magnet and caused the wire to rotate clockwise.

This discovery led Faraday to contemplate the nature of electricity.
Unlike his contemporaries, he was not convinced that electricity was a
material fluid that flowed through wires like water through a pipe.
Instead, he thought of it as a vibration or force that was somehow
transmitted as the result of tensions created in the conductor.

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nerkednerked

Answer 1 year ago

That's the motor, and this other picture is a mercury bridge rectifier have you ever seen one of these?! If not i highly recommend that.

faradaymotor2.jpeg050510_rg_MercuryArcRectifier_01.jpeg
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nerkednerked

Answer 1 year ago

Mercury arc rectifier.... lol

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Johnk543

6 months ago

Electromagnetic is a relevant to number of the turns base on calculation of the iron (ferroid) core area .in this case you need to know turns per volt in transformer even in rotor or stator core area .Basiclly an air coil will produce magnetic field which base on DC or AC electricity will produce diffferent field.For strong field current is fact that will increase the flux magnetic ,which is amount flow energy trough to the coil .Now lower voltage with a high amp and more turns with thicker gauge wire can Perduce large filed .

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jinumohan334

1 year ago

What auage wire is used in solenoid 12 volt DC input for more power

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TaimoorK5

1 year ago

which gauge of wire is best for strong magnetic field exert force of 1 kg

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ArtG1

3 years ago

•Does the number of coils that is wound to the metal bar affect
the strength of the electromagnet?

Yes

The higher the number of windings the more
"resistance" there will be within the coil. You actually want this.
This will slow down the drain on the battery while allowing the magnet to
remain strong: more electrically eco. (It may cost more in the short term).

•Does the wire gauge (20, 24, 28, 30, 34, 36 wire gauge)
make a difference is the strength of the magnet?

Yes. (Electric economy again)

This can be understood better with the idea of filling a
pipe to a certain water pressure (voltage = water pressure).

The wider your pipe, the more water it will take to fill it.
This matter more if you are turning the power on and off, but still makes a
difference while on due to the impact of the current (same as water current). Putting
a resistor will also help to slow down the amp impact.

•Does the voltage I supply to the coil effect the
Electromagnet?

Yes.

Voltage is the electrical equal of water pressure. The more
pressure = the more power. The whole idea is to get very high voltage with very
low amps.

•What type of battery is best for an Electromagnet (AA, AAA,
C, D), and what voltage (1,5V, 3V, 4,5V, 6V, 9V)???

•Depends. Personally, I'd use rechargeable 9V batteries
because they can be easily linked together. They also cost less in the long
run, but bite in price at the start.

Another tip for making it stronger is to use small wire and
rap it in a single direction. By this I mean that you make a primary direction
of your wire. You rap it going in one direction (left to right, for example),
then when you reach the end, you bring it all the way back and continue the
next level till done. (This is patented by the way, so don't try manufacturing
this idea, but there shouldn't be any problem for what you seem to want).

An added benefit to this method is it allows you to make
(using DC current) an electro magnet which can repel a permanent one.

I did this with a McDonald’s straw as the air coil center.
When I took a group of those tiny strong magnets you can buy at Radio Shack and
placed them in a tall group they would jump out of the small straw when I
connected my 9Vs in series into it. Series = more volts; parallel = more amps.
For this to work the tower of magnets has to be higher than the coil of wire
for some reason.

I never tried to make two electros repel each other... yet.

I might try using high 20s gauge (maybe 30). Putting it in a
direction and using only a few 9v batteries at first. You can buy cases to
house other types of batteries, so I wouldn't get hung up on the 9Vs.

Radio Shack sells the cases. Look them up before deciding
which type to get. remembering that 9Vs don't require cases, first see if the
max voltage you can get from a case is enough for you, but try the keep the
amps low.

If you have the time and don't mind the effort, making or
getting volts increasing device would be a good idea. Or an outlet DC power
supply with higher volts and lower amps would be great. Hundreds of volts at milliamps
would be wonderful. This would really need smaller wire because of the
"pipe filling" effect I mentioned before. It will reach full power
eventually anyway, perhaps, but less eco.

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leslie.bee.927ArtG1

Answer 1 year ago

I loved your story about a McDonald's straw. In fact, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. Something that can move less than half an inch when current is applied. All it will do is pull a tiny hinged door open for about 10 seconds, then a small spring will retract it when the current is turned off. (Think cuckoo-clock door.)

Your straw project fits perfectly with what I need to do. Now to the Bat Cave to build my tiny linear motor. Woo-hoo!!!

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DustinS2ArtG1

Answer 3 years ago

Wrapping the coils in one direction's is a new concept to me - do you know what patented talks about it, or what the process is called? I would like to read more about it.

Thanks

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MarkF19DustinS2

Answer 3 years ago

this concept should be self explanitory. the reason for this whole thing is to create a magnet from electricity. a magnet has a north and south pole. we know that magnets are materials in which the polar alignment of the atoms are all pointing in the same direction. this concept uses the revers of electromagnetic induction. by passing a copper coil over a magnet really fast. the magnetization of the coil from the north and south poles, combine to create an electric charge. so here, we are doing the reverse. using an electric charge to creat a magnetic field. So if you want a stronger, more stable magnetic field, then like in a magnet - all the atoms should be polarized in the same direction. the best way to do this, is to make sure the electric current is constantly flowing in the same direction.

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JerryP1ArtG1

Answer 3 years ago

I made a air coil center 50 turns, 5 rows 24 gauge using a 12 v 1.75 A dc power supply and I couldn't move a small screw and I need to re pail a 1/4x1/4 super magnet so how big do I need to make this electromagnet ??? Jerry

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MarkF19JerryP1

Answer 3 years ago

okay first, you dont have a super magnet. you are most likely talking about an neodymium magnet. secondly, make sure your wire is coated. if it doesnt have rubber insulation, make sure it has an enamel coating. secondly, you have to REMOVE this coating from the end, in order to effectively connect the power supply. not only that but you are using low voltage. 12v, and you think you can get away with an air coil? there is a reason the article said to use an iron core. im not going to type it all out, so here is a copy and paste

Many electromagnetic coils have a magnetic core, a piece of ferromagnetic material like iron in the center to increase the magnetic field.[11]
The current through the coil magnetizes the iron, and the field of the
magnetized material adds to the field produced by the wire. This is
called a ferromagnetic-core or iron-core coil.[12]
A ferromagnetic core can increase the magnetic field of a coil by
hundreds or thousands of times over what it would be without the core. A
ferrite core coil is a variety of coil with a core made of ferrite, a ferrimagnetic ceramic compound.[13] Ferrite coils have lower losses at high frequencies.

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TomK78

2 years ago

Here is a link that just gave me a great perspective on coil magnet strength. The smaller wire has more resistance but will require more turns and will stay cooler.

Heavy wire has less resistance but will get hot and can only stay on for limited time but will use less wire turns. Hope this helps.. Here is the link I found.

http://www.coolmagnetman.com/magdcem.htm for the information. I took you right to the experiment and calculations of the question but the home link on the top right will lead to an enormous amount of magnetic information.

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SanjayS67TomK78

Answer 2 years ago

Why are the smaller wire coils cooler when they have more resistance?

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DanielH383SanjayS67

Answer 2 years ago

they dissipate heat faster as the electrons are slowed. More current more heat. Moving electrons generate heat.

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WilsonL15SanjayS67

Answer 2 years ago

Very good question. There are two electric formulae which if you can remember them will answer 90% of all your electrical questions for the rest of your life.

1) V = IR

2) P= IV

So, 1) V = IR, voltage = current X resistance

Lets swap that about a bit and solve for current:

I = V / R

So the current = voltage divided by resistance.

So, as resistance goes up, current goes down.

Let look at equation 2) P=IV

Power = current x voltage

Almost all the power in a magnet ends up as heat so as Power goes down, heat goes down.

So, if you increase the resistance (thin wire) you decrease the power and assuming you don't change the voltage you will get less heat.

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alsports2000TomK78

Answer 2 years ago

Thank you so much for the link and I really appreciated that you took the time to respond. Thanks AL.