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Knex Firepower Standard Answered

Hello everyone I (like alot of my freinds) get tired of... oh why dont you just search "Knex gun" and look at the mini descriptions and read them all, or maybe most and think what alot have us geting tired of, Go ahead! see you in maybe a min or 2? just click back or whatever to return here! and continue from where you last read.

Welcome back! Do you see what what I'm talking about? well there are two things and if you did not notice these things feel free to look again!

And what is Sypran talking about? (drumroll) the Quotes "It's very powerful" "easy yet powerful knex gun" "gun shoots about 60-70 feet" "this is a very small gun but will fire about 50 feet" "A deadly knex gun" and that is just the first page! i could go on for hours (ok maybe a long time) of coppy and pasteing these quotes!

honestly i see to much "easy yet powerfuls" i cant realy tell what is powerful! so what do we do? well we take out time building maybe some and it turns to be not that great or it is great!, or we rush to see if KILLERK, Mepain, Extreme builder, Trainman2000 (i will always call him that >=D)You (aka mykhailo),Perfect duck,loosewire,Dsman19(i cant rember numbers) Oodalumps, am i forgeting anyone? (tell me if i am) has any new ideas/guns.

so what do we need to do? WE NEED A FIREPOWER STANDARD something simple like 1-20 and how to mesure it,

in earth science they clasify rocks hardnes by what they scratch (nail 2.5 glass 5.5 and so on) we need it something like paper peice, but not that for some guns have alot of power but cant peice due to low velocity and or dull non sharpened bullets.

also if you know anything about real guns the bigger the bullet, the more powerful =D but the smaller the bullet the higher peirce rateing (a 0mm would be the best peirce but little damage) so in other words the biger the bullet (45 cal example) the more stoping power it will have but less muzzle velocity (pierceing ability) wile the smaller (7mm) the knocking over/stoping power is anything to be desired, but it will have high muzzle velocity so peirce through more materials. yet with (if it was at all posible) a 0mm (or basicly nothingness) in theory could peirce through ANYTHING but would not stop the person or thing in any way

so the same pricable stands for knex notice the shotguns that shoot conectors (or killerks magnum with his amo) create a biger bang sound, they do more damage, but need more force to get all that mass through a paper wile the ones that shoot sharpened (like gorkem's) or greens can peirce paper with ease.

so not only will we need a firepower test but a peirce test.

peirce is easy enough its velocity and ammo size and a variable if it is sharpend and we have an instructable on how to determin bullet speed.

power is bullet size+ extentions (killerk's magnum ammo like) also a little velocity

but the system needs a ruberband standard to keep in mind no putting on more then the systems amount of ruber bands or size of ruber bands (i know people will do this anyway)

so what am i basicly saying in this topic? easy please people we need records of bullets speeds for sertain bullets with your guns it is easy since most of you seem to have digital cameras and there is an instructable about it. also we need to know a standard RB cause i dont know whats standard in the rest of the world besides USA and even then i dont know if its standard in the other states (they say americans like everything bigger and sadly sometimes it's true)
i have tested some guns out and lets say that stong yet easys from the first page so far are low... so maybe we need a test for difrent kinds of guns! i have seen rifles that fire like a medium pistol (for they are exept they have a longer barrel, bipod, stock, and scope) should these even be given a 6 out of 10 in every catagory? or should it be 2 outa 10 for rifles.
if lets say we got a standard of ruberbands to be 2 (not including trigger ruberbands) that where (makeing this up) a circumfrance of 3 inches, end of barrel being 2 feet away from camera
the adverage gun (all makeing up still) 25 feet with white shooting 1 foot per sec, does not dent an empty can.

bullet speed of 5 feet per second with a max range of 40 feet (acurate ranges ppl use mesuring tape) with a white bullet that dents and peirce through an empty can we can conclude that the gun has high peirce rate but beter then normal power rateing. so a 7/10 for peirce if best was a max of 60 ft bullet speed of 10 ft per sec and white rods then it could have scored higher.

one day when i search "knex gun" i want to see "my first Sniper!, it scored a 7/10 firepower and 8/10 pierce with 100ft range" cause then i can say that is a good gun I'm going to build!

Tags:Knexgun

Discussions

OK MY BRAIN IS HURTING AFTER THE RATIOS AND STUFF
so heres a simple one
10-19= bad(*)
20-29=decent(**)
30-39=good(***)
40+= great(****)
anything ofer 100ft= amazing(*****)

distance does not = power, take this for example

if you pull a bow half way and angle it it will go farther then a non angled full pull
yet the full pull is more powerful.

i know that but range is a good way to determine how good a gun is
heres another chart
peirces paper=*
styrofoam=**
cardboard=***
can on plastic bottle=****
wood of any kind=*****

I know this is a dead comment but could I get a 5* rating If it pieced 1/8 in balsa wood

The problem is that almost no one has enough room inside to shoot a knex gun unless it's a total peice of ....you get the point. But, by going outside there are many other vaiables that effect how far a gun can shoot (eg. Wind direction/ speed, trees and other obstruction, etc.) Also power as in "can shoot through can" or "through 3 sheets of hard cardboard" can also be misconstrude in the way that range from the can is a main factor, point blank range is not always the most powerful range, often 1-3 inches away has exponentially higher power. What needs to happen is a tool be built (out of K'nex, what else?) that is not only easy to use but impossible to mess up, it should be able to give 100% accurate reading for all types of guns from the weakest to the most powerful. Also in terms of different types of ammo, rod size shouldn't matter( thats what she said) the only thing that should matter in terms of ammo is whether it is deer slug, rod, sligshot/ catapult rod(a rod with something the can grab the elastic), or other and specify what that is.
Range is all to often streched beyond reality by saying it can shoot 200 yards, when really it might be able to shoot 50 yards tops when pointed strait but 200 yards if it is pointed strait at the sky.

We need to bulid a target that you shoot from maybe 5 feet away and something mesures force, be it cardboard, or cans, or plywood, maybe even something that leaves a dent in it and you can mesure the depth of the dent to tell you how much force (eg. 1/2"=1, 1"=2, 1 1/2"=3, etc.)

Also one last idea if you would prefer to stick to range outside, is that you divide the range in feet, by the number of cardboard sheets(or other medium)the gun can shoot trough at point blank range (say it shoots 63 feet, and through 4 sheets of thick, corrugated cardboard the equation would be F= 63/4= 15.75, so your force rating would be 15.75)
These are only some ideas to get all of you thinking about a standard in K'nex gun power.

-TheXenk

Nice job, i like the way you think

there should be categories for guns too, crap guns 1-5 feet , pistols 10-30 feet assault rifle and etc 50-80 sniper 100+

crap guns lol (im actualy laughing) i have never seen a gun that fires only up to 5 feet but i gess stuff happens

Most semi-auto's only fire that far. Mine goes further, but I guess it's not 100% semi-auto.

yesterday I made a gun like that!

standards for me lowest power standard-1cm dent in a soda can lowest range standard-15 ft

wow i didn't really think i was one of the "good" knex builders but i see someone thinks i am!!!! and i agree with u we do need a scale of some sort good idea now we need people to follow this idea

yeah...as long as you make some good designs you can walk into the knex masters VIP room. That's pretty much your pass. On topic you know what really gets me mad? Everyoe sais powerful gun this and powerful gun that but all in all it depends on how many stupid rubberbands you add to a gun. There is no specific power level to a gun only potential as in a gun can only be judged on things like how many rubberbands can it take without breaking and how easy is it to recock it and stuff like that.

well you got to admit, some guns are crap no matter how many RBs you put on em wile some (like DSmans) are low friction, and also firepower has velocity so thus it can tell an acurate gun (sort of) notice on some guns the bullets spin out of controll wile on others they fly straight. that is how well it is at peirce

you realy didn't think yourself as one of the good people?...maybe its just me... but i would consider you amongst them. i have been testing some guns out so far and so far from what ive seen its has not been nice to the first pagers saying strong yet easys. T_T

maybe i guess but its good to hear it from other people but im hard at work on a STRONG fully auto gun and im almost done but its pretty big with alot of pieces. with a new pull back mec that is very complicated

How could you forget me on that list? =P Well I guess my guns were never very powerful, but had good ROF. I'd recomend using a gun's flat range (not angling the barrel up) as it's rating of power.

OMG I FORGOT OODALUMPS!!!! sorry man! im adding it up right now! and as for flat shots...umm i think the intructable with bullet speed even said that... grr i wish i could coppy and paste on this stupid wii thing but they forgot to make it have a right click...

. If nothing else, this should give you some terms to search for. Hope it helps.
. Ballistics: study of the motion of projectiles in flight; study of projectile dynamics. The two main variables for bullets are (muzzle) velocity and mass. Velocity will determine how far the projectile will travel and, combined with mass, how "hard" it will hit (energy transferred). Cross-sectional area of the projectile will affect drag (more CSA = more drag = more velocity lost).
. If you are using a standard projectile (known mass and CSA), you can compute the rest of the variables if you know the distance traveled when "fired" from a horizontal barrel. Accurate velocity measurements are very difficult on a K'nex budget, but 'most everyone can make reasonably accurate distance measurements (although getting the barrel plumb isn't exactly easy).
. Your Science/Math/Physics teacher should be able to explain the formulae (and maybe help you set up a spreadsheet).

ah muzzle velocity... y was i thinking gyro... oh i know why thats what i had for lunch that day and today (mmmm gyros are good) ill change tomarrow cause i have to leave soon before my mom relises that im typeing on my wii upstairs and put it downstairs so i cant stay up and watch videos on youtube. (yay internet channel, but stupid keyboard makes a ton of noise when even the slowest and lightest presses)

i forgot to add,

the power test should be something like this

KILLERK'S pistol=1 KILLERK'S magnum= 10 KILLERK'S SR-v1=20

ummm... i agree on the pistol (i hate it with all my life) but sure the magnum is more dmg but the Srv1 should not get a 20! (unless you did a hybrid of the knex gun and a small real bow like i did) and killerk's pistol is only a little farther in range then other guns on this site (that is so far...) oh and thank you for reminding me about you, though i dont consider you a...VIP? (we need to come up with a word or somthin) but i do beleve you are a talented person, (thats like 2 steps from vip, just need like in a medevil guild a masterpeice, and if your DM-15 is realy good then maybe, i cant ensure you that u may be bigger then alot of people) If you dont see your name later then it's probably cause it wont let me edit anymore, i tryed before it came with an error but ill try again

lol, cant rember all the numbers. i like KILLERK's pistol, i think that it sets some sort of standard for the guns that are posted. though it kind of promotes block triggers witch i do not like. well, first the rating has to be based on fact, not how much you like one gun over another. and the rating should be on a scale. like this. first, the gun has to be tested by someone trust worthy, you cant just trust some one that there block trigger can shoot 350 feet can you? . and to calculate the range we would need to fire and get the range of at least 5 shots from the gun, then i think we should divide that by the mass of the the bullet. that would give guns that shoot heavy bullets a chance at having a good range. because if they fired lighter ammo then the range would be different. for power, you would need some one to test and give stats of guns who are power full and not power full. like the power of 15 different block triggers and the power of most of the snipers and guns like the red impact. we would also need a standard for ammo. the only problem would be not all guns use the same ammo or the normal ammo. we also need a standard for the distance from what ever they are shooting at.

i know you cant judge a gun by if you like it or not, but im truthful kind of person, (the whole thing about the one was a joke.) i dont like it just cause i think there are alot of lies to it and that people are not moveing with the times, they are still makeing killerk coppies (and they would flood this website if all where posted). also killkerk lied about it himself! saying it fired 140 ft in a video of his, wile i tryed posting a video responce but he denied it and it showed me shooting a 40lbs horsebow and it did not reach his distance. (note hes fireing an unareodynamic unweight red rod that should be blown away by the wind, but i'm fireing a normal arrow i later found out that the arrow is about 20 times heaver then a red rod with fletchings and head, sooo 40lb on a horse bow can fire as far as 60bs english longbow so then 60/20=3 so thus his gun must be 3lbs of made of pure ruber band power and the pin/ andy part of the gun does not break... oh and dont forget about friction for bows have less friction (and longer pull back) then a knex gun, soo thats alot of power through only ruberbands,

he did not lie, me and perfect duck have tried it. it really does shoot 200 feet.

he put tape fletchings on the red rod to make it aerodynamic.

the weight of the gun does not matter, it does not add any power to the gun. your mathematics are completely unneeded because you would not divide 60/20 to get 3. all that matters is the amount of rubber bands, how well the fletchings are made, and friction. you can reinforce the ram enough that it would not break under that type of power.

in that paragraph you said 60=40, witch is not right, if you used 40 in your math problem you would get 2. but that doesn't matter.

also you cant compare a real crossbow to a K'nex gun. they work differently.

think about it this way, the real arrow is 20 times heavier, so that would account for it having less range. if it weights 20 more then you could just about times the range(200)by 20(200 * 20 = 4000 feet wow) thats around how far it would shoot a K'nex rod. so compare the ranges,

4000 feet horse bow
200 feet K'nex gun

not so unreasonable now is it?

if you know what a horse bow is, a horse bow is a sort of compound bow on anceint times, it is made of muti peices of wood and is alot more powerful with a less pull so it can have more lbs with the same pull and is equivalent to this problem HBx1 1/2=LB (hb horse bow, lb longbow), but as the weight try this on a windy day, trow a paper airplane, it will not fly perfectly because it is under weight, also the knex rods are anything but areodynamic, the fletchings dont make it more areodynamic they add more surface resistance (look at a normal bullet i see no fletchings). fletchings are meant to make the bullet/arrow fly straght foward makeing it more acurate, what adds distance is gyrovelocity, basicly it spinning in air, this is what made the difrencece between rifles and muskets, rifles have rideges that make the bullet (musket ball back then) spin increaseing gyrovelocity, and increaseing acuracy, but take another musketball that is exacly the same, same amount of powder and every thing is the same exept no ridges and the musket will fire a shorter distance. killerk's gun has to short a barrel to even have gyrovelocity, and if your still saying no tho this math go to home depot of maybe your basement get door moldings and try to trow it like a javelin and then trow a headles broow stick, if you notice the moldings have ridges on themselves (like knex) and have the tendancy to turn and spin (point of fletchings) but, it will not turn or spin that much if the fletchigns are on (i do beleve that his fletchings are box like which look at an airplane, v shaped wings and with arrows.) that help gyro velocity seriously take a peice of wood and make it into a giant knex rod (with killerk like fletchings and ridges), then take a broom stick same weight and length put v shaped no ridges tell me wich spins more when you throw them and go have a parents who's jobs have to do with airplanes, a gradpa who was a WW2 piolet, and a grandma who made airplanes(roesy the riviter?). (ok maybe not second part but thats me (my family is all about flight for some reason and that is the truth)

then i almost forgot, his srv1 bullets use a...odd peice ( shaped like |-[or somthing i call it a rollercoaster wire holder 1) the head has a box head(unareodynamic and ungyrovelosic) with a tube thing in front of it (strait line so like older airplanes not great)]

over all k'nex is not aerodynamic in any way shape or form untill we fill in the ridges make everything curved and have v shaped fletchings then a corectly shaped head for weight and make the rod heavyer for the the things like an airplane all need balanced (uplift,thrust weight, vertical stableisering)

and last but not least like everything, it has limits to how far it can go and has speed limits (a 9mm bullet can never go as fast as a 50 cal or elese it will simply break itself)
we would need to find a new bullet if you want to beat everygun's max potential on this site. so go back to science class and do whatever subject you are doing untill you do areodynamics (not the cheesey one from 5-8th grade)

oh and if you want any gun to be the greatest gun ever, fire it in space, sure you will never get the bullet back, but it will go on forever untill another force acts on it. =\

what ever, i don't really feel like fighting with you. but it did fire 200 feet, i have tried it.

I think having some sort of rating system is great, but wouldn't one need to post a video that he actually shot that far? Also i agree a standard for ammo would be very hard :/

well most guns seem to shoot blues (probably because mags can be easly made for them) but then again i think white and greens r replaceing them... and maybe dsman is right we just need a math problem, cause...well this is an example i know my revolver could not shoot blues but many pistols fire blues so thus you canot tell the true power of the revolver (cause the bullet would need to be in the cylander.) i just quickly thought that example but there s more, oodalumps semiauto, guns that fire pre-loaded shots. many rifles are meant to fire yellow and yellow only. crossbows, PD's red impact and thats all from the top of my head.

My crossbow can fire these kinds of ammo, it cannot fire plain rods.

http://www.cs.wright.edu/cecs/egr190/bridge/bdesign.htm
For the Weight of the pieces.

These first 5 numbers would be values of X

1 a sheet of paper

2 a piece of thin cardboard

3 a soda can

4 a piece of thick cardboard

5 a piece of plywood

X + (feet / 10) + ( (X x 2) / weight of ammo)

This formula includes the distance it can shoot, also it includes the weight of ammo in grams and the power, if a target has a hole in it then its half.
As it is now, you actually get penalized a bit for using heavier ammo to pierce through the object

This needs alot of balancing/changing, but it might be a start
I'll spend some more time on this at school, maybe my science teacher has a solution for this, which i doubt :P

Picture 026.jpg

So...you're saying here that KILLERK's SR-v1 is twenty times as strong as his pistol? :p

no, i never said that. i never said the rateing were times. anyway that was just a sugestion.

it sure would be helpful, and it would stop people posting rubbish to.

in the peirce test, we should make it that you can't have sharpened rods. we don't need a instructable on bullet speed. there is a equation for it...(my science teacher would be mad right now)...

0
user
Wicky

10 years ago

Have you been checking out my crossbows..they (mostly) all fire a red rod and red connector attached to it, and thus all supposedly have a very low piercing rate, but the sheer power makes pierce all kinds of stuff, like plywood and cardboard. Btw thanks for pointing me to that speed measure instructable, as the my newest crossbow fires so fast it is only viewable for about 3-4 frames onscreen.

darn, I am not listed there. am, i see some problems with that, its a good idea in all but some guns don't even fire rods, like my rifle, it fires the deer slugs.