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New York: Not exactly tourist-friendly Answered

A British mother took her teenage daughters to New York as a Christmas present.

Shortly after arriving, she was hospitalised with pneumonia.

Social workers told her they would look after her daughters in a foster home, but:

  • They were taken to an orphanage
  • They were strip-searched
  • They were asked intimate questions like whether they had been abused or attempted suicide.
  • They were required to shower in front of observing adults.
  • They were split up
  • They were prevented from visiting their mother in hospital
  • The Social Services have informed the mother that she is now under investigation.

Is this a typical occurrence in the US?

Or is it just New York?

BBC story
AOL article
Daily News article

Discussions

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chaoscampbell

10 years ago

Its horrible that that happened to them... But what would you have suggested they do instead? they had no one to care for them... they're isn't exactly an over abundance of willing foster parents, and even fewer good ones. As far as an orphanage goes... what are they expected to do? just be like... "oh you look like a nice kid, were just gonna trust you have no drugs or weapons on you" The majority of children that end up in these systems, arn't exactly the most well bread, well raised and behaved children... its unfortunate... but unwantedness breeds crime. The strip search was very unfortunate in there individual situation but was more then nessicary for the saftey and security of the institution. I feel bad for them, and wish it could have been different...

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teaaddict314chaoscampbell

Reply 10 years ago

arent you happy we live in canada lmao....we have that canadian hospitality EH! we say sure come take our free health care and here have a molson too!. you can sleep in my igloo tonight! heck tomorrow well go to the new ice hospital to have you checked out! lol

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Keith-Kidteaaddict314

Reply 10 years ago

ur from canada?!! Canadia is the best!!!!!!!!! seriously, are you from Canada?

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Keith-Kidteaaddict314

Reply 10 years ago

dude, I freaking adore Canada!!!!! I've always wanted to go there!!! Wow...look at me!!1 I'm talking to a canadian!!1 i..h...you....*faint*

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Keith-Kidteaaddict314

Reply 10 years ago

I dont care!!! Ive never talkied to a canadiadian before!!!!

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Kitemanchaoscampbell

Reply 10 years ago

How about doing what they said they were going to do? How about not violating them? And how is watching under-age girls taking a shower necessary for safety and security?

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Keith-KidKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

um...well you see, the....because.....then theres the.....yea

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chaoscampbellKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

humans are crafty, dangerous beings. Its unfortunate that a few really, really bad apples ruin it. but you probably wouldn't understand unless you work in a place like that. but basically its like this... whats worse, The violation of a few kids... or dead kids and social workers every couple of months? you can't take your eyes off them for a second, I'm not sure if your familiar with the term... Hooping... but if you figure it out.... I can tell you from experience... you can fit a lot of dangerous things up there. as for showers... an "institutional" favorite is called "The Lock Sock" its basically a big metal object in a sock.... a make shift Mace.... it'll kill someone easy.... showers are one of the easier places to find tools to make weapons... another concern... more so with kids in the shower then adults.... is suicide...... new admits are much better candidates for killing themselves. as for doing what they said they would.... I don't doubt they were... but they probably needed to evaluate the children before placing them in a foster home

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chaoscampbellchaoscampbell

Reply 10 years ago

P.S. I'm more outraged that this happens about 300 times a day ... and this is the first time you cared.

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chaoscampbellchaoscampbell

Reply 10 years ago

another note... this happens right in your own back yard just as often....and in canada too

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Kitemanchaoscampbell

Reply 10 years ago

This the first time I'd heard of this happening since the 1950s. The things done to those girls have been illegal for a long time in the UK. I know what UK children's homes are like, I know how children are looked after - I spent a lot of my youth in a children's home as a guest, because my friends lived there. There is such a thing as "judgement" as well. How likely is it that a pair of girls on holiday with their ill mother will have concealed dangerous substances or objects about their person? The things they did to those girls are only done to adult prisoners in this country. Even then, they're allowed to have contact with their families.

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chaoscampbellKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

This the first time I'd heard of this happening since the 1950s.

I don't doubt it.... it is probably the first time you HEARD about it

these are admitting procedures in a lot of institutions so there not things you would ever see as a visitor.... and I'm pretty sure your friends didn't want to talk to you about it.

What I'm saying here is not that this is OK, I'm not condoning this kind of thing, but I am giving the workers the benefit of the doubt.

This kind of work, more so when it comes to children.... is really really not easy. You have to make horrible decisions.... and when your understaffed and are 1 person in care of 100 children you just don't have the time to take risks. Its sad and the children are often miss treated..... but the workers are under paid and are expected to be saints.

there are thousands of judgement calls the average worker has to make everyday... you make the ones you can.... but sometimes your judgement says "I gotta be safe on this one" its also said that the mother is under investigation... so everyones just gonna assume that these workers are just being jerks? We're all gonna just ignore the fact that they probably found some reason to investigate? there are millions of children out there that live with BAD parents.... Children's Aid, or Child protective services.... they only ever hear about...or find....a small percentage of those children..

I don't know what the right call was, I wasn't there. But because I wasn't there and I only know what the media told me... I'm not going to condemn the workers with my judgement.

This happens all the time, this isn't the first time this month....and it won't be the last. My sympathies are with the children, I wish the best for them... and the thousands of other children in the system

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Kitemanchaoscampbell

Reply 10 years ago

these are admitting procedures in a lot of institutions so there not things you would ever see as a visitor.... and I'm pretty sure your friends didn't want to talk to you about it.

I wasn't just popping in, I used to sleep over. A few years later, my mother became senior carer there, and I ended up spending nights there as an "inmate" when my father worked away from home and my mother was working residential shifts.

Now, as a teacher in a deprived area, I deal with children in social services care on a daily basis - the things described in the articles just do not happen here. Care homes must be a lot smaller as well - "1 person in care of 100" doesn't happen. There are legal minimum staff/resident ratios which can be as low as 1:8 for the youngest children, and (I think) don't go over 1:30 with a minimum of two staff on at a time.

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PatrikKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

I assume staffing levels - heck, just plain *funding* - makes the biggest difference.

Social services have been cannibalized in the US for far too long now. Treating children like criminals because we can't afford to supervise them. Throwing psychiatric patients out on the streets. 16% of Americans without health insurance... see a pattern here?

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its a lionPatrik

Reply 10 years ago

I am one of those 16% without health insurance. If anything would happen to me, I would be screwed. There would be no way I could pay for any of the bills. I get paid minimum wage, and barely get any surplus from my checks as it is. Lets face it, $100 every two weeks does not get you very far...

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KitemanPatrik

Reply 10 years ago

I do. Around 15 years ago, we considered moving to the US to work. We had no children at the time, and it seemed like a good idea - see the world, get paid for it - but one thing changed our mind. Health provision. I don't consider myself a socialist, but free health care for all, paid for by a compulsory deduction from salaries (it's not a tax, it's National Insurance Contributions) is a jolly good idea. True, some slip through the net, but (when the bean counters stand back and let it) it works.

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GoodhartKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

There is such a thing as "judgment" as well.

You've hit the nail on the head there. More and more our laws and ways are being dumbed down so that people are encouraged to "obey" and not think. Go through the motions, for there is that SLIGHT CHANCE the one with diaper is concealing a 4 megaton nuclear device. *sigh* When I read 1984, oh 33+ years ago, I never dreamed we would reach the state we have. Like I wrote below, this country has allowed, encouraged the terrorists to win; and they have: many here are now fearful of their own shadow and this is the condition the terrorists wanted.

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Doctor What

10 years ago

WTF??? This is yet another reason to move to GB.

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ll.13Doctor What

Reply 10 years ago

Why do you want to move here?? go to S.America... not here! there's a (insert choice word here) running the country.

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Keith-Kidll.13

Reply 10 years ago

SOuth america is as poor as a puppy in the street beaing kicked by a senile old bum while sitting over some other dog's steamig pile of poop. No seriously, its too poor

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chooseausernamell.13

Reply 10 years ago

Are you talking about an old rich and expensive woman with a weird metallic cranial extension and an automated waving hand ? =o]

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ll.13chooseausername

Reply 10 years ago

The Queen? she's nothing, just a facade, a face for tourists..... I mean Gordon Brown, the look alike of a guy in V for Vendetta... hmmm... maybe there's a few more similarities..

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whatsisfacell.13

Reply 10 years ago

That's the reason EFG is wearing a Guy Fawkes mask...

EFG = Gordon Brown

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Weissensteinburgll.13

Reply 10 years ago

Oh, so it's not just the US with a sucky president? Thanks for clearing that up.

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its a lionll.13

Reply 10 years ago

"there's a (insert choice word here) running the country." Theres one here too... that is if we are selecting the same general choice word.

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ll.13its a lion

Reply 10 years ago

I think so.

-but I'm sure a "3rd World" country is much nicer to live in that "1st World" (imho) =)

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Kitemanll.13

Reply 10 years ago

ll.13, you get free health care, free prescriptions and optical and dental care until you're 16. You don't get an insurance bill with every visit to the GP or hospital.

You have a reasonable expectation that somebody will look after you in your dotage.

Our youngest has had kidney stones since before birth. He has had probably tens of thousands of pounds of medical care so far, and indications are that he will need similar treatment for life - his life-long bill would be many hundreds of thousands of pounds. Because he had the condition before we could have taken out medical insurance in his name, it is probable that we would not get insurance for him. The treatment he currently gets for free would, instead have probably cost us our home and cars.

You think I'm exaggerating? My uncle lives in Eire, and his teeth are a mess because he can't afford to visit the dentist unless he is in pain, and his marital relations are a mess because my aunt is very fertile and they don't dare have another baby (Catholic, see, no condoms allowed).

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GoodhartKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

To be honest, it is not free, but it is most definitely "better managed" than here. Medicine is one area that capitalism only makes matters worse.

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Doctor WhatGoodhart

Reply 10 years ago

The thing about capitalism is that if people actually wanted, they could make it better, instead of just talking about making it better.

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GoodhartDoctor What

Reply 10 years ago

That would be difficult at best. The trend is to make things "less expensive" by denying payment from insurance companies, which only gets the doctors to find new and innovative ways to get what they think they deserve, whether they do or not. And this drives up prices as much as all the other corruption involved....and it is in every arm of this particular octopus.

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ll.13Kiteman

Reply 10 years ago

I know, I have steel reinforced teeth at the moment, the bill? £2,800+ free by the NHS. -but even though G.B. may be excellent in some places, it's hell in others. ;-)

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Doctor Whatll.13

Reply 10 years ago

Because... if you haven't noticed, Great Britain is a much better place than that of the United States.

But you didn't here it from me.

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homebowyerboyDoctor What

Reply 10 years ago

LOL!!! For a sec there i thought you meant Green Bay, Wisconsin!

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Doctor WhatWeissensteinburg

Reply 10 years ago

I could cause some change. Minor change. But I really like the British culture, people, everything. I just want to move there. And the US sucks. Why try to fix up cardboard as a meal when I can go have a sirloin steak?

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jtobakoDoctor What

Reply 10 years ago

"The grass is always greener..." Take something simple-no public trash cans in England. Why? They are still worried that someone's going to drop a bomb in one. Here's another-want to take a walk in the woods? Not unless you are rich enough to own it. There aren't any public lands, just private. Get a place to live? You'd have better luck finding something in southern california, on the beach no less, with current prices. Everywhere has good and bad things. You just have to pick how to look at it : )

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killerjackalopejtobako

Reply 10 years ago

Wrong, plenty of bins. Plenty of non private woodland to take a walk in... Our house prices may have shot up recently but they have just started to dorp a bit, the only belfast and london are still on the extreme end of the prices...

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Kitemankillerjackalope

Reply 10 years ago

...only belfast and london are still on the extreme end of the prices...

In the local press this week, Southwold has an average house price of over 300,000GBP. In our town the average is over 200,000GBP and climbing (we nearly bought a house for 72,000 when we moved to the area, but couldn't get a mortgage. It changed hands a couple of months ago for over a quarter of a million pounds).

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killerjackalopeKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

Yeah I meant about living costs, just got mixed but housing pirces are extreme here aswell, £34000 14 years ago last year the house sold for £360,000 Which was a shocker over ten times the value... Even though it was in need of roof and electrical repair... Due to being oldish...

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Kitemanjtobako

Reply 10 years ago

It depends where you are. There are no bins in large railway stations or airports, but there on the trains and in smaller stations. Town centres (even London) have plenty of bins. The land may be technically private, but the Right to Roam is enshrined in law. House prices, ah, now there's the rub. We only just got a house - both of us teachers, if we'd left it another few months we would not have been able to afford our house. Only a year after we bought our house, a house over the road went for nearly 100k more than we paid!