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Non-toxic, natural, cheap and WATER-PROOF adhesive or glue, is this impossible? Answered

I'm a quality engineer working for a company in Turkey, the company collects the coaldust ( powder form of the coal )  from all the cities of Turkey and makes them briquettes by pressing with very powerful machines. Of course we use some adhesives for mechanical strength of the briquettes. We use CMC (a kind of cellulose) and this material is soluable in water. So our briquettes are not very durable under rain or moisture. Now I have to change the binder or adhesive materials in order to produce waterproof briquettes. I dont know how it's possible. I have to use nontoxic natural materials, and cheap as well. Last week I tried to do something but we were unlucky maybe.
I tried to use Technical Gelatin and Alum (Al. Sulphate ) together, the briquettes seemed very good after production but they were not durable when I left them in a cup of water. So I have to find a solution now. Can you help me about that? I'd be very pleased. Thanks.

Discussions

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johnyradio

1 year ago

Does this help? Different kind of glue, but might work:

"Collagen glue can be modified with a wide variety of additives. To make it more waterproof the addition of 1% by weight of alum(aluminum sulfate) or formaldehyde is effective."

https://www.naturalpigments.com/bone-glue-pearls.html

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BillD8

2 years ago

perhaps you might experiment with the type of glue used for children's arts and crafts?
these tend to have no, or little odour, tend to be non-toxic, (check to see if this is the case when they are burned, but i suspect they will be safe) and they tend to not be expensive.

some people here have mentioned sugar, but sugar can be very dangerous in a fire situation, and produces fumes which my not be too good for people. it is also combustible to a very high temperature.
children's arts and crafts glue tends to go through very rigorous testing, so much of the work may already be done for you.
you may only need to test it for dangerous fumes when it burns.
many of these children's glues are water poof.

no payment required. i am happy to share

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BillD8BillD8

Answer 2 years ago

further more.
animal fats and vegetable oils, when burned, produce too much soot.
so briquettes being used in industry, the soot may damage or clog up machinery.

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BillD8BillD8

Answer 2 years ago

perhaps look at the P.V.A. family of glue?

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LoveY3

2 years ago

soak/rub in lard-animal fat-and let it dry

the fat/lard is water proof almost and is like glue and burns and is natural and available

so soak the coal in vegtable oil then in a melted lard but before the lard soak it in melted sugar its like glue

salamyour dua and if iit works then payment whenever its possible dear

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BillD8LoveY3

Answer 2 years ago

these are NOT good ideas, and vegetable oil and animal fats and oils are not non-toxic. they choke you when burned and produce a heavy blue smoke which stings your eyes.


also, the smell is not good.


that is why not many cultures use animal and vegetable oils and fats for burning in lamps any more.

they stink worse than the coal dust in the briquettes (which has a more comforting smoke odour)

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LoveY3

2 years ago

soak into melted sugar and non water soluble ash repeat that at least twice and let it dry then check the results and make dua and try to give some money later ok this I think will work inshaAllah.

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MaanB

2 years ago

To bond saw dust you must use an adhesive which is PVA based.You can opt for a better quality or a cheap grade PVA based adhesive.Then you must mix a solution of Powdered Ester Gum resin + Toluene into the PVA adhesive mixture and you are done with your purpose.

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Valvelifter

3 years ago

Have you tried mixing cement (as used in mortar) with the coal dust? That is commonly used in the UK where the weather is very damp and our brickettes are not affected by the rain.

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ElizabethM59

3 years ago

In my perusing for natural products I ran across a description of Tung Oil- it dries,may prevent water from absorbing into the individual pieces of coal, and carnauba wax may hold the thing together. I'm assuming something was found that worked... .but dearly curious as I would like to find a clear adhesive I can make at home that will work for my kids as a replacement to plastic...

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arikira

3 years ago

Instead of selling your clients coal in ANY format, why not manufacture and sell your clients an alternative heat/energy source? Coal is extremely dirty as an energy source. The burning of coal for manufacturing and electricity generation is the #1 cause of climate change, which is already having catastrophic effects for many regions of the world which are undergoing vast changes in local weather patterns. For the moment, coal is cheap to use as an energy source but very soon (if not already) alternative fuels are even cheaper, and coal will soon become expensive because use restrictions will cause lack of popularity which in turn will result in scaled back coal mining and production.

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ashrafollow

3 years ago

Ok

I like to suggest u go for sodium silicate based adhesive for which i think will suit ur application as well ur budget also and no matter u can formulate this adhesive with ur self also no in what quantity the problem is water proof/resistance.

for i can help with full guarantee but who will pay me and how much the base of product will sodium silicate but achieve the waterproof properties contact i will tell chemical reaction process which will make them 100% guaranteed waterproof.contact me rashraf @outlook dot com

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rickharris

8 years ago

Consultants normally get paid fro their expertise!! :-)

Have you tried starch and then heating the briquette to set the starch - although not fully water proof it should be fairly robust.

Alternatively coat the outside with an oil or wax to water proof and continue to use your old filler.

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enisdogrurickharris

Answer 8 years ago

I promise to pay you a good money if u find the solution :)
Starch doesnt let us to produce fully waterproof coals unfortunately..
And I have to say that, coating isnt a good solution because when the briquettes rub to each other OR break off after the coating process, the wax coating will not run.

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johnv474enisdogru

Answer 3 years ago

Could you include some shellac sprayed as mist over dust, then use same binder as before? Shellac is natural and is very water resistant. I believe it is flammable also. You can buy the shellac flakes then soak in alcohol and spray. They dry sticky. You could just spray over briquets after, but this way will allow clumps, so only small amount of briquet wash away before exposing more shellac. Or, alternative is to use combination beeswax and pine pitch. Beeswax used in candles, little scent, waterproof, sticks well enough. Make briquets of charcoal and beeswax mixed when wax is liquid, form into shape. Problem: is waterproof but low melting point (unlike carnauba) so good for rainy season but not good for summer sun.

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rickharrisenisdogru

Answer 8 years ago

You might try casein

extract from encyclopaedia Britannica

 

"This product is made by dissolving casein, a protein obtained from milk, in an aqueous alkaline solvent. The degree and type of alkali influences product behaviour. In wood bonding, casein glues generally are superior to true animal glues in moisture resistance and ageing characteristics. Casein also is used to improve the adhering characteristics of paints and coatings".

 

Cascamite is a commercial resin based glue that whilst it will not survive immersion fro any time it is considered water resistant. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cascamite-Powdered-Resin-Wood-Glue/dp/B0001OZI98

It is a very strong but brittle glue where the glued produce will absorb the glue.

In general natural glues that would be suitable for burning wouldn't be water proof: Starch - Animal glues etc - Polymers which would be water proof will give off noxious fumes when burned.

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enisdogrurickharris

Answer 8 years ago

I think casein is suitable for us, I heard about it before but after a bit of research casein based glues were too expensive to use with coaldust. 2 points to be considered now:
1-) I cant find and buy tons of casein glue for "very cheap" per month. So I'm trying to find a way to obtain casein from the waste products of milk or cheese factories easily.

2-) Would the casein be strong enough to repel water molecules?

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rickharrisenisdogru

Answer 8 years ago

Yes casein can be made from Milk. Adding an acid - Vinegar will do - will precipitate the casein - the acid is then neutralised with a base - Bicarbonate of soda will work t make the casein clump up and be more sticky - Some experimentation may be required.

It isn't totally waterproof but is very water resistant. Couple that with a spray of veggi oil and you should have a product.

I await payment!! :-)

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rickharrisrickharris

Answer 8 years ago

A bit of research shows that briquettes are usually bound with cement - ?? Certainly waterproof.

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Bender Rodriguez

4 years ago

I know this is pretty late, but if you bind the coal the normal way and just spray coat them in a flammable, but water resistant coating, that should be sufficient. Only the outside really needs to repel the water right? Also, if you go ahead and seal small single use portions (like in 2kg increments) in heat sealed plastic sachets, then you will avoid getting very much wet at a time, and you will have a more user friendly product. Best of luck with that man.

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PinoyMaker

6 years ago

Adhesive:
Yup Tree sap will pretty much suffice as a binder/adhesive. It just has to be dried well to reduce the "stickiness" and retain its form

Moisture problem:
Well depends on how long the briquettes are going to be stored before use. if its used almost as soon as its made then packaging would be simple enough. but if its going to be stored for longer periods a sealed plastic (not necessarily vacuum-sealed) might be in order. just to keep moisture away while in storage.

And yeah wax would actually prevent moisture absorption.

organic adhesive
organic waterproofing

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i would say it is but it must be a non newtonian fluid thats adhesive or could freeze at high temperature it is possible but the reality of it being created in the next 24 hours is 0000.1% so maybe try resin (if you are able to get enough), some kind of cheap wax or a combination

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the higher the temperature(I'm talking outside air temperature) the better the pine sap will flow.
Example: pine sap will flow better(faster, easier, etc) when it is 100 degrees outside as opposed to being 80 degrees outside.

So if there are conifers in Turkey(and I'm sure there is somewhere-never been there) you should have zero problem tapping conifers for sap.

Coincidentally, there are very few, if any, conifer trees that do NOT produce acceptable amounts of sap.

Conifers = spruce, pine & fir trees.

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if you used liquid nitrogdegn on something or maybe if you put thermite on it

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AranoAirsoft 007 Sniper

Answer 8 years ago

both won'T work work as liquid nitrogen would only cool it... thermite is a mixture of alluminum and ironoxids with no adhesive function and igniting it produces molten iron...

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Airsoft 007 Sniper Arano

Answer 8 years ago

yes but it produces plenty of it and while it molten iron before it has hardend you could store it in a high high temperature room where it whould stay a liquid

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the ONLY place you will find a room hot enough to store liquid or molten iron, is inside a steel mill....and then(if my memory serves me correctly) only in a blast furnace. nobody has that kind of money for that....

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AranoAirsoft 007 Sniper

Answer 8 years ago

thermite is only useful for direct usage... and you should read one more time what anisdogru is looking for...

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shawneegeek

8 years ago

Thats easy... Pine pitch, if you can find it in sufficent quantitys. Pine pitch was used by native americans in the old days to seal the lashings on their birtch bark canoe. The plus side to pine pitch is the oils hold a flame very good, its organic, nontoxic, and it sticks to everything. You derrive pine pitch by boiling down pine sap to remove the "slag" or debris. The end result, natures own glue. But nothing is really waterproof, water being the universal solvent and all, and given enough time, the pitch will break down too... but it should hold long enough for what you need.

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Aranoshawneegeek

Answer 8 years ago

funny that you call water the ultimate solvent, as many (maybe most?) organic compounds are insoluble in water. the pinepitch you mentioned is composed of such compounds.

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shawneegeekArano

Answer 8 years ago

you deny that water is the universal solvent? Im sure anyone with in the chemestry field would disagree. And anyone who had built a traditional birch bark canoe using pine pich to seal the holes will tell you that after only a few months of being in the water the craft will start to leak as the water has washed out the pitch. Its resistance to water, however, is the very reason i sudggested it in the first place...

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SIRJAMES09shawneegeek

Answer 6 years ago

If your Pine Sap Glue only lasted a few months, then you did not making strong enough or did not make it correctly.

Please understand, I am NOT, I repeat NOT calling you dumb or stupid or anything negative, I'm just saying that it should last a lot longer than a few months.

The best way to make Pine Sap Glue is to grind up charcoal, grind up some plant fibre(horse manure works wonders after it has dried soild) & mix that with melted pine sap. Now Before you use this glue, you need to test it to make certain that it is strong enough for the purpose intended.

There is a good reason why it is called the "Crazy Glue" of the wilderness.

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Aranoshawneegeek

Answer 7 years ago

i'll restrain my laughter for a moment as you couldn't know that i'm studying chemistry... but it is just as i sayd... most molecules in pine pitch are non-polar, this makes them rather hard to dissolve in polar fluids like water but easy to dissolve in non-polar fluids like turpentine. you might wont to look up the words 'hydrophile' and 'lipophile'

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fuzztanksArano

Answer 7 years ago

You seem to be a bit full of yourself. I'm not trying to be rude, but shawneegeek was only trying to help.

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Aranofuzztanks

Answer 7 years ago

you are right and i regret to have it said that way... i shouldnt write when i'm in a bad mood

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shawneegeekArano

Answer 7 years ago

Well thats ok, because being water resistant is one of the qualities that was needed for this. ... and thats why i refered to it.

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SIRJAMES09shawneegeek

Answer 6 years ago

according to real life tests in the wilderness of Alaska, Pine Pitch will hold up up in total immersion of water for about 18 months to 2 years...

How many people keep charcoal 18 months to 2 yrs?

Pine Pitch is the "crazy Glue" of the wilderness...there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, you can not use it on while camping, hiking or if you are in a survival situation.

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tincanz

7 years ago

What about tree sap? There are lots of Ponderosa Pines in my area, and touching a branch will cover your hand in a highly sticky fluid that will only come off with rubbing alcohol and vigorous scrubbing.

If it is pure, it burns pretty cleanly (at least more so than coal).

It is very cheap if you have pines or firs or spruces or junipers around you. Just cut a "V" shape in the trunk, about 6 centimeters across, insert a stick or similar object to the bottom of the "V", and put a container below to collect the fluid.

It doesn't harm the tree if you do it right, and the sap will hold the briquettes' shape unless it is in a very serious stream of water (like a 20 meter waterfall).

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SIRJAMES09tincanz

Answer 6 years ago

Pine pitch(pine sap/pine resin, all the same for the conversation we have here) is a highly flammable substance that would be an excellent marriage to charcoal. It is sticky enough to hold the briquets together, would in no way take away from the charcoal, & would even be better foro the charcoal making it easier to light....PLUS, did he not say it had to be all natural?? Mother Earth provides many things we humans can use without leaving much of a footprint.

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dangerUXOtincanz

Answer 7 years ago

dang, you beat me to it. I was going to suggest the same thing. Only I wouldn't have said it in such a smart way. (*insert round of applause here*).

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tincanzdangerUXO

Answer 7 years ago

Thank You!
I don't understand, though, how it is said in a "smart way."

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tawit

7 years ago

Why don't simply cover a pile of the briquette that are being waited for shipment with a plastic sheet? Or, build a permanent roof for it; it'll pay off in itself within a year comparing with other chemical and biological alternatives that have been suggested so far.

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bobdole5656

7 years ago

use wheat paste its sort of water proof like well its used in firworks holding it can be raiend on but not sumerger for longer that 30-45 minets and the more light water the stronger are u going to pic a best anwser

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ANDY!

7 years ago

What about that stuff mussles make when they stick to rocks?

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webby427

7 years ago

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Non-toxic%2C+natural%2C+cheap+and+WATER-PROOF+adhesive+or+glue%2C+is+this+impossible%3F

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acidbass

8 years ago

caulk, jaycubs ideas and everyone elses or silicone

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Jaycub

8 years ago

Baked gypsum powder (Plaster of Paris) could also work mabey.

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Jaycub

8 years ago

The natural glues I know of are boiled fish skin and tree pitch / sap. I think the fish skin could work.

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AwesomeSwordGuy

8 years ago

there's this stuff called plasti (or plastic) dip. You can dip something in it to make a bendable rubber type thing. You can get it spray on I think. Also you can try liquid electrical tape. You can get these at home depo.