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Question of legality Answered

Is it appropriate for Instructables to host a group dedicated to an activity known to be universally dangerous (both medically and socially), and also illegal in every country currently hosting members of this site?

Clarification added in edit

There is a pro-drugs group on the site: https://www.instructables.com/group/potsmokers/

Do "we" show the group tolerance, or the door?

Discussions

It's not illegal in Canada... They still support medicinal here.

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Jaycub

9 years ago

Door.

not so fast Jaycub.

Why door? how does their presence harm you?

I propose a third option -> ignore them if you don't like it

> Do "we" show the group tolerance, or the door? AHAHAHAHHA ... Yeah sorry. Anyway, I read some comments below about minors being on this site and this doesnt really affect me (im 13 years old..), having drugs and stuff on this website. I know people do drugs, i dont take them, but i know people do it. It doesnt make a difference if i know THESE people do drugs.

Other vices would include, -Alcohol -prescription pill abuse (very common where I live) -Porn? - and in some cases even media sources (tv, music, movies, etc) -I agree with Nacho, in America we should respect people even if we don't agree with their Ideals and beliefs (it is suppose to be a FREE country!). If it becomes a problem I think the Instructables team is more than capable of dealing with them. They have the right to turn these guys in, they can trace the source ip's, delete the group, or they can tolerate it. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean someone else won't. -As for the kids or young adults on the forums, I know for a fact they will have to deal with it in the schools. Hell, they probably know everything about the drug and then some! Unfortunately, kids are having to deal with this stuff at a younger age and more often than you would think. I also know that the young members of Instructables have the sense to know what is best for them! - In the end we will just have too see what becomes of them and other groups of that nature!

> Is it appropriate .. ? . Hmmmmmm. I'm not sure that it deserves an unqualified yes. How about it's no less appropriate than the pyro/bomb/spying/etc iBles/groups that I've seen. . > known to be universally dangerous (both medically and socially) . I have yet to see any evidence that it is any more harmful than other common human "vices." And rather tame compared to a lot of them. . As far as I can tell, most of the problems with pot are a result of ppl having to circumvent the law to acquire it, not with its' use. Most ppl I know are responsible users who's only crime is having a bag in the house. . I'm not saying that pot is good for society, it's just not something I'm going to worry about. . > Do "we" show the group tolerance, or the door? > I vote for tolerance. > But where do you draw the line? I don't think iBles for cooking meth or processing heroin would be appropriate. Not that I'd get too upset about it, but I wouldn't like it.

I have yet to see any evidence that it is any more harmful than other common human "vices." And rather tame compared to a lot of them.

What other vice is more carcinogenic than tobacco, causes paranoia, memory-loss, damages the brains processing capabilities (ie lowers IQ)? Or acts as a "gateway" to other, more dangerous and destructive substances? All of these are confirmed with hard medical evidence.

And regarding the other (explosive) instructables, they are not "pushed" on minors.

When pupils - and parents - ask me how I do some of my stuff, I tend to direct them here. At least one has become a member (although he hasn't posted anything yet).

It grates on my concience to send them to a site with a section that promotes drugs. They have a hard enough time avoiding them in this area without my seeming to condone them by showing approval for a site that appears to promote drugs.

Nobody "pushes" explosives on children.

No one said "pushing" it was a statement about possible legal ramifications. When a 14 year old kid is making something he found here and it blows up in his face. Should the poster be held accountable? if he didn't find it maybe he wouldn't have been making it. Maybe the posters recipe was off or there was a typo... My argument is not against learning its about the safety of the student (whether they are 14 or 55).

Although drugs are illegal it's really a personal choice for you to partake or not. I choose not, although I do not condemn those who do. Instructables in a site for learning and nurturing. There are some brilliant young minds on this site that are minors. In society today they are exposed or can be exposed to drugs in all walks of life. There are numerous forums for them to learn about that elsewhere. Where are the forums for them to learn about steam powered cars, Volcano cakes, cotton candy machines and solvent transfers??? Here! It would be nice if this was a safe haven for them. On a legal note I think instructables and the posters should be cautious of the fact there ARE minors here. But not only in the case of drugs, but explosive, vending machine hacks, illegal pranking... At some point if a minor is arrested or worse, you know a lawyer will try and flip it to "the contributing to the Delinquency of a minor" when they learn of the source of his knowledge. I'm curious if Eric has looked into this realm. Or what is in place to prevent this.

So far as I can tell, all Instructables about explosives, vending machine hacks and illegal pranking were posted by minors. I have always objected to them as well.

Well, for starters I agree with everyone so far. I guess in situations like this, it will be up to Eric and the gang @ instructables to decide if they are to stay.

Is it legal? Totally, that's why people are allowed to post how to make bomb websites, and handbooks for chaos. It's all thanks to America's lovely first amendment. The only thing that can be a hindrance, is the morality.

Believe me. If the US Gov't had anything to say about it, there would be no porn or bomb making sites on the Internet. The only reason they're there is because of the worldwide anarchical format the internet has developed. Attempts in the past to gain control has resulted in such resistance that they've pulled back to regroup. Self governing of the net is the only thing that protects us from outside control. Voluntary watchdog groups targeting net crimes and predators also help prevent more stringent controls. Some recent laws, such as the Patriot Act, while outwardly apparent to be aimed at the war and potential terrorist situations, if directed toward the net, could wreak havoc on our current liberties. Allowing total anarchy on one's site is almost inviting our Government to use the site as a test case.

That's true, the patriot act sucks..but it's still legal to have that on here ;)

Just to play Devil's Advocate, there are several other, equally illegal or quasi-legal instructables and groups-why not bring them up at the same time? (trying not to go off topic...) I think that 'universally' is a bit too inclusive. There are a lot of very legal options that are as (or more) dangerous.

So...will the Pot Smokers do an Instructable on how to grow, harvest, package and consume? How to build a better bong or how to make your own rolling papers? I've seen many posts on here about religion, politics and current affairs. What purpose do those posters serve? They have no relevant Instructables to add on those subjects and no one asks for them to be removed. If the Pot Smokers can add to the group constructively its no worse than how to make your own explosives. If you don't like it, don't read it! I do not condone the use of illegal drugs. I do not condone the abuse of legalized substances. I do not condone censorship. Lextone

> I do not condone the use of illegal drugs. I do not condone the abuse of legalized substances. I do not condone censorship. . Yeah. That's what I meant to say.

"Is it appopriate" probably depends on the ideas/ideals of the squid labs crue. What potential problems are they willing to deal with? It seems there isn't really a content limit on instructables, except for blatant spam. As instructables gets larger, and they have to work with other companies, I imagine some of them might prompt a content change, especially if some special interest group made a big stink to the company about it. If the relationship between Squid Labs and the company was more valuable/financially crucial than the questionable content, instructables' content rules would drastically change. I don't think that we're in danger of that right now, considering the BMOC, ewilhelm, still seems to personally review every instructable published. But if they were acquired by say, Google, or some such, that could change in a hurry. For all the odd things you can find on Youtube, it's a pretty safe-for-work site.

Boy, sometimes my posts seem like non-sequitur strings. I swear every sentence connects in my head before it spills out onto the screen.