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TR8, NAR, and the ZKAR Answered

Hey guys,

It has been some time since I posted a new forum topic, but I am not here to ramble about time lapses. I want to know where I can find instructions on how to build the TR8. I plan on doing an 'ible that features the TR8, the NAR, and the ZKAR, so that I can have said that I built them, and so that I can see for myself weather they are all what they are made out to be. I understand that the NAR is essentially a mod to the TR, so I want to build a TR8, so that I can build the NAR. Help please!

-The Red Book of Westmarch


I can't help you with links (LAZYYYY), but I see you have them already. However, I would like to tell you about my personal experience with each of these guns. First, the easiest, the NAR. It's supposedly an extremely powerful and extremely awesome gun, but most people you ask that aren't from the "KI crew", if you will, will just tell you it's not that good, I personally would tell you it's less-than-decent IMHO. I got it to shoot at max 30 feet with whatever finned, arrow headed, different calibrated bullets I shot (30 feet was from one finned green/red rod, just FYI). The NAR - a big let down. The TR-8... This is a good weapon, very innovative at it's time, very powerful, the first good turret gun... I was never a big fan of turrets, but it's a cool gun, good for a high RoF medium powered gun. The TR-18 is essentially the same but with a bigger turret, so if you can afford the pieces, build a TR-18 instead. If I were to choose a best turret gun, I'd go for Kinetic's 'Double Turret Assault Bow', if I remembered the name correctly. Now that's an awesome gun right there... Now for the ZKAR... Hehe, my favorite of the three... The ZKAR was and still is one of my favorite guns ever (The base ZKAR needs some tweaking, but nothing The Racker's 'ible and a little bit of creativity can't fix). It's one of the first (if not the very first, but I'm not 100% sure, so I avoid saying) "Bolt Action" guns that were ever made, and one of the simplest, cleanest and best to this day. The "Bolt Action" mechanism in guns was always one of my favorites (I think you might be able to notice that from some of my featured guns lol...), and I can safely say I made some very good guns using it. The ZKAR is what introduced me to this mechanism and showed me the potential in it. I think the ZKAR is an incredible weapon and would advise anyone to build it. Good luck :D BTW, KI never opens for me (since about a year ago, give or take six months (lol)), I hope it will for you... Godspeed!

I realize that I'm kind of moderating this forum for no reason, but it interests me. The NAR is the most powerful gun that I have ever built, and trust me, I am in now way part of the KI crew. I have gotten insane ranges with it, and I am kind of baffled how other veteran K'nexers (such as yourself) can't seem to get it working.

It also kind of sucks that KI won't open for some people. Quite honestly, it is a very, very poorly scripted site. Someone needs to somehow get the important files off of there and onto instructables. That'd be good.

Anyways, I have seen your work and had forgotten to subscribe. I'm going to go do that now.

Thanks for the comment, I do not believe I built it wrong (refer to the comment response I made to FlyingFish10 (nowadays comments change location so I can't say above or below because it won't stay that way for long -_- poor ruined 'ibles...), and as you said, many other veteran and otherwise knexers have failed at getting the NAR to be as good as it supposedly is... I don't know what it is about it, maybe some knexers are just used to really bad ranges and when they try out the NAR it seems incredibly powerful... Idk but I usually build my guns with range as one of the 3 main aspects (alongside innovation and reliability), and usually get pretty powerful guns, so I'm used to high ranges... The NAR's legacy really is a mystery to me how on the one hand a lot of people claim it's the best gun there is and on the other hand, an equal amount of people claim it's very bad... I don't know I can't tell what it is about it.

I agree, but I personally think most KI guns are too outdated and much better guns exist today. The two guns I would like to see ported are the ZKAR and the TR8, which, to my glee, Red has offered to do.

Oh thank you about that I left a comment on your OB earlier before I read this comment lol :D

Dude, I hear that you, along with Red seem to have the assumption than any more bands than three won't make the pin accelerate faster?

I know this to not be true, because with 5 or more #64 rubber bands the NAR can go 100 feet; I'm assuming that you used three. The reason you aren't getting that range is simply because you need to put more rubber bands on it.  I really don't think it's a matter that can really be argued, and I really can't see how it can be argued, but you could try, I guess?

The NAR goes far when you put more bands on it; I really think that's all I have to say; you don't have to agree, but I think it's true.

And you're right, a lot of KI guns are outdated, but some are probably here to stay in K'nex battles for a long time.

And you're welcome. :D

Not necessarily, but any more bands past that point will add very little to the pin, as the force is not multiplied by higher numbers with every extra band, but rather it gains a tangent of it, since the force is potential force that is released in one blow. Had the force been progressive, it would have been directly multiplied, which would be very good. Plus, since knex pieces are limited in their aerodynamics, even if you assume it is shot out with more force, it'll eventually lose most of it's force round about at the same time as with a few less bands. Another thing is that with each band, the pulling back of the ram becomes much much harder, since that is direct progressive force, so it is multiplied, and also it raises the chance for something to screw up in your gun or for something to break. So, you see, I'm not saying more bands doesn't add more power, I'm just saying the amount of power added past the second or third band is very small and most of it is wasted, and IMO it doesn't make up for all the bad side-effects it brings with it, so I stick to usually having between 2-3 bands on my guns. Just FYI, on my NAR I used 5 bands. I knew the NAR wouldn't break, but part of the reason I didn't like it was because it's energy transfer was very bad and most of the band power was lost, so although you could stack multiple bands and nothing would break, you needed to have a lot of bands for any real power, and I still got only about 30 feet, as I said.

I'm not saying the NAR can't be a good weapon, I'm just saying I never found it to be good... If you do, that's great, but I would never use it. The ZKAR, I would gladly take to any war, but I'd rather be more patriotic and take my own guns to a war, but that might just be me...

Ok, that makes me feel better for some reason. More bands does equal more power after three, but minimal; I can totally agree to that. I don't know what to say: I built the NAR and got insane distance; you didn't and that's cool, too.

Also, you are using #64 bands and not #117, right? Red, I know, is using #117, and I really don't think those are that powerful, but what do I know? I've never seen those bands in person.

Yeah, I'm more of a simple guy when it comes to warfare: long pullbacks with reliable mechanisms that achieve great distances is my thing; reloading speed I don't really care about, because the faster you've shot out all of your ammo, (which is made faster with a bolt) the more often you'll have to reload, leaving you vulnerable. I can reload turret guns, oodammo pistols, and the like pretty fast; I guess the aforementioned reasons are why I never really bothered to build the ZKAR. I've heard it's a great weapon, but... If I've learned anything from this post, I've learned that not all K'nex weapons work for every person.

The more you know...

Also, it'd be cool to see some more stuff from you! Do you have any projects as of now? You don't have to tell me; I'm just very curious. :3

I use both, and they're each suitable for something else. The #64s and typically better for when you need a long pullback and a lot of power, as they're small but very elastic, and the #117s are good for when you need slightly less power and a lot of length, good for massive guns or just guns that need long bands, such as my REMPAR or S3.

I would highly recommend building the ZKAR, it changed the way I see knex guns, and has a much higher success rate at getting the promised results than the other two.

As of now, I am working on and off (for the past year or so) on a lever action with a horizontal under-barrel mag for blue rods with an internal pusher. It's not done yet, but I know exactly how I want to do it and I think there's a very high chance it'll work (Just to get you up to speed, I've done the entire barrel and the mag, chambering system for the lever and the receiver, but I haven't begun work on the pin and it's pull (Which will be operated by the lever), so I'm just about 2/3 of the way done and as I said, know how to continue, but am way too lazy and have way less-than-enough time to work on knex guns at all). I've been eager about a fully functional lever action (Meaning one pull of the lever both cocks the pin and chambers a bullet, so all you have to do is operate the lever, shoot, lever, shoot, and so on, which is awesome on it's own, but might just bring a new level of RoF to knex guns as well :D) for over a year and a half now, but until about 8 months ago I didn't know where to even begin, but then I found a solution to my problem with the magazine (if you want I'll tell you in more detail, I just don't feel like it right now, sorry :S), and that made me think that the concept is possible after all, which is something I was never sure about. I only need about a week's worth of work on it to finish it, tweak it, test it, finalize it and post it, but I am extremely short on time and extremely lazy in the time that remains... I'm sorry to say you might have to wait a lot longer before seeing it.

Yeah man you probably built your NAR wrong... mine is insanely powerful. WAY beyond a 30 foot range.

I might have, everyone can make mistakes, but I consider myself an experienced knexer, plus I've built it two separate times and I've heard similar things from many other people, including Red.

Did you happen to take pictures of your NAR? You may have built it wrong.

It worked out great! It got 40 feet with one rubberband. I gave it a longer stock (the one in the TR-18 instructions was way too short for me :p ), some other small stuff that I gave it (foregrip, some sights).
It was a good gun

To build a TR8, a good way is to build the body of the TR18 without the turret, then just build an 8-shot turret and slap it on. SYMEN's Ditto Bow had good instructions on how to build an 8-shotter, if I recall correctly.

For an NAR, stick with the TR18 body, but for it to be an NAR it needs mods to the front. Mod it so it looks like this. Here is a closeup of the energy transfer chamber located in the front. (the actual instructable provides helpful info)

Also if it helps at all, here is a picture of the NAR I just build a couple days ago. Believe me, it's got some serious power behind it. You can completely replace the back end with anything you want as long as you keep the pin guide. It's a very customizable weapon.

I can get you some pictures of my TR8 which is the TR I recommend designed built and went to 3 wars with the last one was the final variation and worked flawlessly during the war

Please do, I am always pleased to get messages and pictures from you. Give me pics of ANY project you have on my OB, I would love to see them.

I realize that some people have had bad luck with the NAR, but if you build it right it'll work great. I can't wait to see the 'ible, and I hope all of the weapons work out for you. I've built TR's and NAR's, but I've never built the ZKAR. Just never appealed to me I guess. Good luck!

Oh, and if anyone wants to, I have a new forum topic that you guys should check out. I'm interested to see what you guys think about my latest project. :3

Yeah, TAD said he only got it to shoot 40 ft. This surprised me, and makes me wonder if the guns that people say are the best are really that good. I have the ZKAR built, and I must say, I am really impressed. It has its shortcomings, but even still, it is a great BA gun.

I'll be sure to check out your forum topic ASAP.