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To think, these people are real...! Answered

After a careless click on google, I suddenly found myself looking at http://www.alien-ufos.com/

Oh, boy!

That whole place is so... mad. There are people arguing over the definition of the word "unidentified" (one side was saying you're only allowed to call something a UFO if it is an alien spaceship performing impossible manoeuvres. If it's only a secret government black-ops spaceship, you're not allowed to call it a UFO...)

The concept of "evidence" is utterly fruit-loops - one guy was convinced that alien activity was real because he had heard that somebody had written down that somebody else had overheard an astronaut in quarantine mention the fact that Apollo 11 had been "followed by aliens all the way to the Moon".

I'm going to bookmark that forum, then every time we get an HHO project posted, or an overunity device, I can go there and see what insane people really act like...

...!

Discussions

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KentsOkay

9 years ago

Haha! They are all batty!! sounds like my kinda people
Methinks I'll create an account...

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ll.13

10 years ago

I don't know why I'm replying to one.

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Weissensteinburg

10 years ago

We really have more evidence that aliens do exist than we have that they don't. Many of these people truly believe (and may have, for all i know) that they have seen alien spacecrafts, or have been abducted by aliens. Whether it was a dream they convinced themselves actually happened, they're insane, or if it did happen, I have no way of knowing for sure.

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KitemanWeissensteinburg

Reply 10 years ago

...more evidence that aliens do exist than we have that they don't...

There's the rub - scientifically, one cannot prove a negative. One can only prove a positive.

There is, therefore, be no evidence at all that aliens do not exist. There is evidence "for". There is evidence that the "for" evidence means something different, but there is no evidence "against".

For example:

Believer: I saw a light in the sky, therefore aliens exist.
Scientist: Given your position, the direction of the light, and the exact time of day, the light you saw was actually Venus, therefore you are wrong about the light proving the existence of aliens.

The Scientist must not say Given your position, the direction of the light, and the exact time of day, the light you saw was actually Venus, therefore you aliens do not exist.



Personally, I can see no logical argument to say alien life does not exist. However, those aliens will be bound by the same physical laws that we are, and any visitation will be a big thing.

Alien life will encounter Earth one of four ways (the terminology is my own):

  • Passive-remote - they will see us, pick up our broadcast signals, or find our artefacts (Voyager spacecraft). We will never know if that happens.
  • Active-remote - having noticed us, they send us signals of their own. Potentially, a (slow) dialogue will ensue. (cf "A for Andromeda")
  • Teleoperation - one or more mechanical devices visits the planet to observe and relay data. It may or may not involve a landing.
  • Crewed visitation - kind of obvious. What is less obvious is that the visit could very easily be one-way, due to the extreme journey-times. OK, maybe Bill the Alien has a natural life expectancy of 10,000 years, but, if not, Bill and his friends will be coming in a generation ship, so that the aliens that arrive will be doubly-alien, having never seen their homeworld. They could easily try and stay. I would.

If the last option is chosen, then we would not (IMO) see the pattern of encounters claimed by Believers. They would either stay completely hidden, maybe visit in camouflage, or would make a blatant landing in full view of the whole planet. Probably, they would do both, revealing themselves after a period of observation.

Piece-meal drop-ins and abductions would be counter-productive, predisposing our population to perceiving aliens as a terrorist-style threat.

Anyway, that's my two penn'th.
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WeissensteinburgKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

As for abductions...If you think of them as a highly advanced species (and us as a relatively primitive one) than they would be exactly like our abductions of wild animals to study them. We observe them, tag them, and release them, with no consideration of their opinions for us.

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KitemanWeissensteinburg

Reply 10 years ago

Oh, there's a Far Side cartoon, which I can't find via google right now...

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AnarchistAsian

10 years ago

i've learned to accept that some people are just stupid... :P

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Tool Using Animal

10 years ago

Just a thought. We mock these people because thy profess an illogical belief in something patently false, but what things do we believe ourselves that are false, but we fail to recognize because of self deception?


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KitemanTool Using Animal

Reply 10 years ago

You make a good point, but I like to think that I am rational enough that, should somebody demonstrate the falsehood of something I believe, then I will stop believing, or at least top professing that belief and work hard at not believing it.

However, as I do not knowingly hold any baseless faith, I hope that the point is moot.

(Darth Gecko Man and CICrow are doing their best to persuade me that my "faith" in evolution is wrong, but they've a long way to go yet.)

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CameronSS

10 years ago

The scary part is that many of these people vote.

Explains a lot, doesn't it?

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KitemanCameronSS

Reply 10 years ago

I was reading an article on how Christian fundamentalism influences the US Presidential vote, and how Presidential candidates toe the fundie line to get/keep those votes.

Depressing.

For instance, how many lives will never be saved because of an uneducated politician being influenced by a pastor's uneducated opinion about stem cells?

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Sunbanks

10 years ago

My goodness.... This is greatly entertaining....

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Spl1nt3rC3ll

10 years ago

LOL!

Read frozenthought's post. Do I need to say how ridiculous that is?

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KitemanSpl1nt3rC3ll

Reply 10 years ago

...I now have absolute knowingness of the truth of it.

Oh, what a wonderful phrase!

I once spoke on the phone to the editor of Fortean Times (now moved on), and he believed that there was an entrance to Hollow Earth at the North Pole, because a mosaic of satellite images had a large black circle over the pole. He wasn't convinced when I pointed out that the reason there was a blank space was that the satellite hadn't actually passed over the pole.

If I recall, he thought that some UFOs were actually highly advanced aircraft making sorties from Hollow Earth, created and piloted by the Nazi scientists that took refuge there in the early 1940s...

The people running FT these days are far more sensible, which explains why the circulation has gone up so much.

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Spl1nt3rC3llKiteman

Reply 10 years ago

Some people just can't see reason... It reminds me of an argument I had with my brother about whether aliens exist. I explained that there is bound to be other life in this massive universe, but it is more likely to be in the form of a microorganism. My brother stubbornly refused to except this, stating over and over that "It isn't alien if it's that small! Aliens fly spaceships and shoot lasers!" I tried to explain that alien meant foreign, and the term could describe anything. It was hopeless.

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KitemanSpl1nt3rC3ll

Reply 10 years ago

LOL

I now find that I have acquired an otherwise-intelligent pupil who believes in the Loch Ness Monster - "3000 people can't be wrong!!!"

It's slightly surreal - his hobby is video, and he puts a lot of effort into getting the FX realistic, yet the main prop of his argument is that people have videoed the monster...

For some reason, there is also a government plot to cover up the existence of the monster - he hasn't realised how much benefit a real monster would have on the UK economy.

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emuman4evr

10 years ago

LOL! Ufo people are funny.