Magnetmotor - really impossible or just supressed? Answered
When someone starts talking about a so called magnetmotor than most people judge right away.
Laws of physics, perpetuum mobile is impossible, magnets are static....
We all know the limitations nature puts on us... That however did not stop quite a few people since the 1950's to build working magnet motors. Or, to be precise: To make the claim, show them and then somehow disappear. A few though seem to have survived and even claim to make good business. Securely closed machine, stellite tracking and 24/7 online monitoring. Either just a bad and long running hoax or a real attempt to keep a secret secret. Even the somewhat famous Yildiz motor showed off around the world only to disappear.
Some like them, some don't. Either way all this sounds like the perfect conspirary theory LOL So lets take a look on what is fake and what might be real but missing some vital clues. You can find several good Youtube channels created by people trying to build a working magnet motor. Some of them have no problems to admit failure and still keep trying and updating their projects. Did long enough and you see two outcomes. The first is giving up or "realising" that it will never work. The second often seems like a user is getting some relly good results and is really close to keep the magnetmotor running. Both disappear without and updates or traces. Now of course this is just confirmation that it will never work, but then again: What if it did already quite a few times? Even Tesla had patents for a magnetmotor and so far none of his patents were a hoax. Although none of his patents allow to actually build a working devices without some additional info and knowledge. And that is the key that I am trying to get: The lost knowledge.
How can a magnetmotor never work? That one is quite simple from the start. If a linear model won't work no matter where you start then a rotary version will fail as well. And if a linear version works, it has to do so far at least 5 segments and with preferably increasing or at least constant speed. Having said that and assuming you know a little bit about magnetism: Ever wondered about shapes of magnets?? The common types are block, round like a bar and those disk like ones, some even with holes. A less well known version is the ring magnet. You can look them up as well as their corresponding magnetic field geometry - or what is assumed to be the right geometry. To give you a clue: All those floating spinning toys use a ring magnet in the base and onother one in the spinner. In the center is a dead zone for the magnetic field that is far lower than further out on the ring. And the strnger outer fields also reach further - giving the entire spinner a bowl like area to float on, the spinning just stabilises it like a gyroscope. A similar flat disk magnet wouldn't have this indentation in the field but rather a dome like sphere. The ring just kicks a dint into this sphere if you don't mind the simpification. Similar changes in the field structure happen when you combine two or more magnets. One example we all know is stacking identical smaller magnets. And often we are suprised how much stronger two thin disk magnets are compared to a single. Distance however sets a certain limit. And take those hook magnets... Just a small ring magnet in a metal pot with core. Remove the magnet and just by itself it is far weaker. Why? Quite simple.... The same way a transformer core directs the magnetic flow, the metal part of the hook magnet provides a shortcut for the magnetic field - and in return all is much stronger ;) Now you have some more clues, but still there are tons of options for failure... The most common is the sticking effect. No matter how well you planned and designed in most cases you linear or rotary prototype will stall sooner or later. Even if started manually at high speeds some seem to run very long but once they slow down and stop it is obvious they always stop where the magnetic field won't allow the binding effect to be overcome.
Wouldn't dare to say that I have a working magnetmotor, but I might have some clues you want to try if you decide to give it a try yourself. So how COULD a magnetmotor actually work? Like in the Perendiv examples all over the web, you could aloow a moving responder to the rotor. Like a piston the responder will be lifted in areas it would otherwise limit or reduce the speed of the system. Well designed only a few mm would b required but it also means wasted energy to move the responder. Then there is the nice way of modifying fields by adding magnets in different angles and polarities. Lets say towards the end of your stages on the linear model it is hard to overcome the binding effect from the end of the previous stage. The perendiv model would now somehow change the distances. But you can also add magnets to lower the binding effect ;) Like a ring or hook magnet you can shape the field and offer a stronger repulsin field or a lower binding force. Last but certainly not least is the option of adding magnetic metals like iron or somehow weirder ones like bismuth. So, do we have any examples of something very common utilising any of this? We sure do :) Take a speaker apart and you end with the cage, the membrane, the actual work coil and the magnet. We don't need anything but the magnet so take a good and very close look. What in the audio world is called a shield to prevent the magnet from messing with things close by is exactly the same as on a hook magnet ;) Only difference is the tiny gap for the coil. The magnetic field is directed into two paths, one by the metal core, the other by the inner enclosure of the magnet or the magnet itself. The coil operates in the area of maximum flux.
Last hints... If you take two identical and strong magnets with north or south facing up then it is quite hard to push them very close together. But check what happens if you try the same wen both soth poles (or both north poles) are placed on a magnetic surface - if in doubt your standard fridge door. Suddenly you can move much closer together with the same amout of force (not considering the added friction!). And similar story for opposing configurations. Where in free air or on a table the magnets would just jump together, on a metal plated you can move them much, much closer before this happens. Copper pipe and magnet fun :) Ideally you would have a straight copper pipe and a cylindrical magnet that has a loose fit in the pipe. Aluminium pipe work too or even a roll of aluminium foil if you have nothing else. A magnet in the pipe will travel very slow down the pipe, friction is not an issue here. So what is slowing it down? The magnet creates a field in the pipe and through that the pipe generates electicity. And funny enough this electricity creates an opposing magnetic field in the pipe - the magnet slows down. Even if you glue it onto a wooden stick it won't rush through it. Trying to push it by hand and you feel the created resistance. The faster you push, the harder it is to push! If you made it all the way down here with the reading then I have to assume you fit into one of three of my categories. a) You are a total sceptic and just read it for your amusement. If so, then please don't post a reply with usual negative feedback, instead see it as the same fun you had reading it ;) b) You are at least curious and like to play with magnets. In this case take the above as inspiration to explore more ways to have fun with your magnets! c) You are more or less frustated because you wasted a lot of time and some money to build a magnet motor that just won't work. A and B might go on and enjoy the fun, C however might want to read very attentive now ;) If you take some indicator sheet for magnetic fields, like these funny green ones, and play with moving magnets then you see a very interesting effect on the "screen". The otherwise static field lines change chape and sometimes even seem to disappear or shrink. With a small rotor assembly it almost looks like flashes when the magnets move past each other. This effect is often totally neglected and to be honest I overlooked it for a long time as well. Being able to see how the magnetic field changes gives the thing an whole new dimension so to speak. Creating a magnet with a complex shape is difficult to say the least. Only ferrite or ceramic ones can be used and you would cut of machine them according to your desired shape and with regards to the orginal center of the magnetic field. So most people revert to the classic way of shaping by adding magnets of various types, sizes and amounts. Modern neodymium magnets make this trial and error process easier as there are many sizes and strengths available. Add a detector shield of suitable size and you have hours of fun time ahead of you. But doing so in any rotary assembly is next to impossible. So what did Yildiz differently and what was missed so many times? Yildiz took it a step further and not only provided "shunts" to create very strong magnetic field from the generated electricity but also a second rotor. Since we all start small lets focus on the basics first. Remember the hook magnet and speaker or the copper pipe? Some examples for shape shifting your otherwise static magnetic fields: 1. A magnetic metal "connection" from one (low in the armature) pole to an opposing (high in the amature) pole with cause the field from the "high" pole to "bend" towards the connected magnet. 2. A magnet with an orientation of 90° to the last magnet is the sequence will severely influence the field of this last magnet! This goes for either orientations! 3. Adding a non-magnetic "shield" around a magnet, like a piece of copper pipe, will not affect the static field of the magnet. However it will severely alter the field of the enclosed magnet when another magnet passes it! It will also affect the overal field during the passing as the moving magnet will also induce a field in the copper by affecting the field of the enclosed magnet! Thickness and lenght of the shield influence the strength of these effects. 4. In a simple perendiv motor design the bar that creates the attraction for the spinning part is a magnet too. Either a long bar type or two small ones with an iron or nickel rod between them. There is no need for a piston or something that drives the bar up or out of the way ;) Just use the right magnet at the right spot on your rotor to repell the bar ;) Mount the ar with suitable springs and you suddenly can have multiple stages on your rotor instead of just the usual one! Don't forget the moving magnet on the opposing side of the segment in question though as otherwise you still will get stuck. (Hint: You can place a small but powerful magnet in the center of the opposing bar ;) Just make sure you limit the springs movement so the bar won't be pulled closer)
Ok, hold on now! Does a magnet motor actually work or not? I can only give hints and say the laws of physics as we know them apply to magnetmotors the same way as everything else. Unlimeted motion without supplying energy is not possible. Limited motion with adding or using energy however is still possible and real. The same is true for being able to machine, 3D print or otherwise manufacture at very tight tolerence and accuracy levels. This includes bearings or bearing systems with very little friction losses. Just check these floting and rotating magnet toys that look like a spindle. Only a tiny needle like pin makes contact with a glass surface - next to no friction loss. A proper and supposedly working magnet motor should provide more energy than what it uses - one way or the other. No law of physics lets us get around the fact that such a motor could only keep spinning if the produced power or motion energy is at least the same as what is required to make it move. Magnets lose their strenght over time, they are like a very slowly depleting battery. So, isn't it funny that all magnet motors so far that claimed to work also had the requirement to replace the magnets once the things fails to work or start? And if you leave a very strong neodymium magnet shielded from outside fields or magnetic stuff than your grandkids will still find a quite strong magnet. Do a little performance test with your new magnets, like how much force is required is required to lift them off a steel plate. Make the same test with the magnets once you played around extensively with them in your motor. Now take a spare magnet that was never used from the orginal batch and compare both against each other ;) If the motor would not use energy then why are the magnets depleted to a certain degree, realted to runtime and usage time? Wait a minute! Does that now mean it actually works? Lets just say energy is certainly used. We only know similar effects from electromagnetic systems. But did anyone ever really check how much actual energy is in magnetic field generated by a non electric magnet? Get a good sized N52 neodymium magnet and check how much force is required to pull it off a steel surface. Now try to get the smallest sized electromagnet capable of that force and check how much energy it consumes at the level that equals the pulling force of the N52 magnet ;) Makes no sense to even try to compare these you will say now. I just say energy is energy and we were formed to only think in certain ways and don't even try silly things like this ;) To keep the fun up let us imagine we would actually have a similar energy available than what our electro magnet would require. In reality more because we wouldn't have electrical or flux related losses in the metal around the coil. Or is the imagined reality, no clue ;) If true it would mean even a motor with very bad efficiency would be able to create huge amounts of torque. Well, torque is basically acceleration. Which would mean our motor would not just be happy to spin, it would speed up until the bearing fail or the thing is ripped apart. Imagine a dental drill of that size and weight suddenly falling apart at full speed... Every example of motors claimed to be working, that are not fakes, seem to be happy no matter what the load is. It the thing turns a generator than it would have to slow down a bit with the increased load but they don't. With no limited factors otherwise this makes them a fake. Even a perfect motor would have to react to load changes.... Don't we agree that the stronger the magnetic force or field in a conductor the stronger the resulting magnetic and opposing field of the conductor? We use the difference to either drive a motor or take out electricity... But if you take the "open" shielding of a magnet in a changing field than the influence of the shield on the overall field gets stronger with stronger field changes. And properly desinged and orientated they would actually double as a natural limiter for the rotation speed. Once the electrical energy in the shield becomes too strong it will be able to cancel out the field of the enclosed magnet...
If we assume a magnet motor is really possible and works with the intended output to keep it spinning or even take energy out: Then what would be possible downfalls that stop this thing happening in everyones garage? We can explore the stars but so far no one bothered to invent anything to visualise magnetic field in a 3 dimensional way other than by simulation. No realtime and true observation like this. The few working technologies that exist rely on sensors, interpretaion and filling in gaps. But imagine something like a detector shield as cloud! And then even better with selctive spacing to get a realtime view of where exactly the field lines go. All we can do is forget our teaching and try it out anyway ;) If by some mistake a magnet motor would really work right away, then chances are high the inventor would wonder why that thing takes off like mad and how to stop it. Unless well prepared it would certainly end in the destrution of the motor. But the inventor would know what to look for in the next prototype. The logical conclusion would be to the couple the energy taken to the speed while physically limittin the free load speed. The other one would be the design the electrical generator around the and within the motor. To even get close to this point you would have to spend endless days and nights working on finding a solution. The closer you get the more disappointment when the final model still fails to keep spinning for more than a few hours. Most people will then accept defeat and move on... Still not saying it actually works but if you made it to this point in time where it could be easier to move on and do other things:
Ever wondered what would happen if you "shield" a magnet with a coil? Of course nothing would happen as we know. But try this in some fixed assembly that allows you move another magnet through the field of the shielded one. Perferably witha force gauge or some option to read out the energy required to move it through the various stages of the field. See what happens if you short the coil or add a resistor to it ;) Now if this coild is able to produce electricity then the more we use the more the effects on the required force would change. What do you think would happen if you combine common coil relations of electric motors to a "coil shielded" magnet motor? Right, all these coils would interact with the magnetic fields of the coils they are connected to... And through that with the overall field surrounding the enclosed magnet..... I leave up to you to imagine how these interacting coils could provide "resistance" or "acceleration"/"surplus electricity"...
Like they say: You can only find out if you try ;) To keep up the positive thinking: A permanent magnet just sticks to any magnetic surface and does so with the same force. But the real energy loss in terms of getting weaker can almost be neglected. Any electromagnet capable of the same holding force woul require ongoing energy supplies to keep it up. It is using energy the same way the permanent magnet does! The difference is the permanent magnet is not seen as anything that would provide us with energy.... And if it can't provide energy other than passing through coils then why the heck does it keep sticking to the fridge year after year? It does require energy to keep this weight up doesn't it, even if you add a thin teflon disk and oil to reduce friction? ;) No magic, no "free energy" bogus, just plain physics viewed from a slightly different angle than what we learn in school ;) Have a good laugh and a good beer, then read it again and just consider some of the things here that are not mentioned in any literature about magnetism that we commonly use. Now I got you thinking, didn't I ? ;)