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If you are into home brewing then you have likely heard of "The Electric Brewery" created and run by a fellow named Kal. If you haven't then get over there and read up. This is the best homebrew setup out there, well thought out, well designed and effectively open source. It uses electric hot water heater elements, a three-kettle two-pump setup, and a process control panel to bring your home brewing to a new level of awesome and easy. Kal has designed a top-notch, no-compromises system that is safe, enjoyable and easy to use. However, it is expensive. Also, Kal is an engineer by training, and as a fellow engineer I cannot possibly leave well enough alone and must change his design. This is job security which is bred into all engineering types. You can substitute fittings and pots and pumps to reduce system cost, but the heart of the "Electric Brewery" system and one of the costliest is the control panel. Here I will show you how I redesigned Kal's control panel with cost in mind, bringing the cost down from around $1500 to $250 without compromising safety and with only a few compromises in function. I can attest to the fact that this control panel works and makes great beer. If that sounds good to you, then read on!

Step 1: Bill of Materials

The key to designing this kind of control system on the cheap is flexibility and availability. If you stick to the recipe strictly you may find that you cannot source the specified part locally or economically. Also, depending on your system you may be able to substitute a lower cost lesser performing part safely. So here I am going to present the parts that I used and you can use them as a guide for sourcing your own. In some cases the parts are from the internet and anyone can get them while others are local surplus and you might need to sub. I'll go into detail on what you should look for when choosing parts as needed. So without further ado:

Electronics:
3x DPST-NO 30A 120VAC relay (PN# G2290127 at www.zoro.com/)
3x REX-C700 PIDs (www.dealextreme.com)
2x 60A SSR (www.lightobject.com)
2x 60A SSR heatsink (www.lightobject.com)
2x 30A 250VAC locking 3-wire receptacle (www.homedepot.com)
1x 15A 120VAC two outlet receptacle (www.homedepot.com)
1x 30A 240VAC 6 foot 4-wire dryer cord (www.homedepot.com)
1x Keyswitch (local suplus but this one should work: www.amazon.com)
3x XLR 3-pin male socket (local suplus but this one should work: www.amazon.com)
1x 3/4" cable clamp = $1 (home depot)
2x On-off toggle switches (local suplus but this one should work: www.amazon.com)
1x On-off-on toggle switch (local suplus but this one should work: www.amazon.com)
2x 240V lamps (local suplus but this one should work: www.amazon.com)
Misc spade and ring lugs
Terminal strips for wiring buses (local surplus but similar to: www.amazon.com)

Enclosure:
1/8" Birch plywood (approx. 6 square feet)
Scrap 1/2" plywood or solid strips for frame and back and sides
Titebond III wood glue
Screws for mounting components and securing sides to enclosure

Thanks for a great and complete guide.
<p>Thanks for the great design. Does the C-700 display fahrenheit?</p>
I have not been able to get the C700 units that I have to display F. There is a setting for F, but it doesn't seem to do anything. YMMV. It's not that big a deal, just let's you think in C.
<p>I have a question about the switch you made to the pwm. Are you able to get a 100% duty cycle using the 555 chip with a pot? I have been experimenting with different configurations and it seems that I can not get 100% (100%would only be used initially to get it to boil). Could you please share a little on your boil kettle set up? I definitely agree that this is the type of control route to go for this element. Great job on your build here!</p>
A 555 setup would be easiest. <a href="http://www.electroschematics.com/5834/pulse-generator-with-555/" rel="nofollow">Such as this one</a>. But true 100% duty cycle is not going to happen. Is true 100% really going to make a big difference for your application?<br> <br> However, I used a different approach. What I did was to use a potentiometer fed into the comparator input on a small microcontroller board I had laying around. I then used the computed value of the resistance of the potentiometer to generate a PWM duty cycle output that is fed to the SSR to power the boil element. This is strictly overkill but was expedient in that I didn't have any 555 chips handy and had an old microcontroller board sitting around that I air-wired to re-purpose for this task. If you want the code I can share, the micro was an MSP430F169 and the code can be adapted to any version with a comparator input. Even with the capability to get 100% duty cycle, I don't find that we ever use it.<br> <br>
<p>I guess not really needed it was more of a concern of if I am running the SSR open for long periods then closed for short periods why not just run it full 100% if possible. The short amount of time it is off will not make much of a difference in the heating. Now that I am thinking of this is there a freq range I should be trying to stay in? I was initially trying to keep it very low. Thank you for the link!</p>
<p>Is it just me jmengel or is the power on switch wired improperly in your diagram?</p><p>You have the power switch coming form the far side of the Contactor that it is controlling. There is no way that the Hot side of the switch will ever be hot. It should be getting its HOT power from the cord itself.</p>
<p>Yes, there is an error in the schematic as BillM1 pointed out a while back and still have yet to fix. The switch should connect directly to the cord as you point out. Someday...</p>
<p>So the 240V indicator lights for the burners hook to the X and Y hots? No neutral or ground? Would a 120V indicator lamp work just by connecting to either the X or Y and then to the neutral buss? Thanks!</p>
<p>As i recently found out, no you cannot.</p><p>I attempted to use my switched HOT1 line(coming from the SSR) to power a 120V LED.</p><p>The problem is that your other HOT2 line powers on the LED by going through the outlet, and coming back up the HOT1 line's cable through the contactor and completes the circuit with the neutral wire. So basically your LED is on always if your HLT or BK contactor relay is switched open.</p>
<p>There is a reason to use 240VAC indicators across the hots, so they only light up when the SSR is firing AND the relay is active. If you go across one of the hots to neutral then the indicator will illuminate when the relay is active regardless of the SSR status. </p>
So i'm in a situation, I've built and used this system for about 5 or so batches and its worked flawlessly. Today i set everything up, was heating up water, and it has died. Now i am trying to figure out what is wrong. When i turn the key i can here the power relay clicking, but nothing is powering on, any thoughts?
<p>Sorry for the silence. Just really hard to diagnose from orbit. I'd start with a voltage probe and try to see where the power is going. If the main relay is working and the PIDs and other parts are getting 120/240VAC then likely the PIDs are blown. Hard to envision both going at the same time though. If they are, your only recourse it to repair or replace them. I'd want to figure out why they blew before replacing. Good luck.</p>
I figured it out, traced it back to the breaker and one of them blew so I'm good, thanks for your help
<p>I was wondering what components would have to be switched out, and what to replace them with if I wanted to go with a 50amp service from my range top. I live in an apartment and don't have a dryer outlet. Is it as simple as switching out all the parts here that are rated for 30amp for those rated at 50amp? This would also allow me to use two elements at the same time. Would I end up having to wire it differently to operate both elements at the same time? If you have time to address these questions it would be much appreciated. Cheers!</p>
<p>Unless you plan to brew very large batches (two elements in one big kettle) or two batches back to back, meaning you will be boiling one while mashing another, I don't think there is much utility in going to 50A. If you have a 50 amp service in your apartment for the electric range, just change out the plug on the brewery controller to match whatever you have for your range and build the rest of the system as shown. I wouldn't try it at all unless the breaker for the range is GFCI. </p><p>To answer your question though, you would have to change the system significantly to operate both elements at once. The on-off-on setup currently specced does not allow both to be on and a pair of independent toggles would be needed along with changing out the main contactor and all shared wiring to handle 50A. Not too difficult but if it isn't clear to you then probably not something you want to jump into. </p>
Sorry, my misunderstanding. I thought this setup only provided power to one element at a time. As long as I have power to the HLT and the BK simultaneously that works fine. Yes, two elements in the kettle I'd be using would be overkill.<br><br>My only worry, using the 50amp service, if there was a fault in the 30amp system, it wouldn't trip the breaker, isn't this correct?<br><br>Thanks for the quick reply.
<p>The setup only powers one element at a time. The on-off-on switch only allows one element relay to be energized at a time. Replacing the on-off-on switch with two independent toggle switches would allow both element relays to be on. However you would need to alter the internal wiring and components to handle the load of both elements being on at the same time. </p><p>A fault in the 30A system would still trip the 50A breaker, but not before potentially damaging the 30A components and wiring. With a 30A breaker and components specced for 30A, theoretically a fault would not result in damage (melted stuff). </p>
<p>A great big thanks to jmengel and the folks out at the electric brewery for putting this instruct-able together. I made a hybrid of their two models and sprung for some extra bells and whistles but completed the project and its working fantastic. </p><p>I elected to have a PID for the HLT and the MASH. The boil is controlled by a pot that runs an SSR. I figured that that's all that is needed for the boil and the pot and SSR are only about 36.00 on Auber Instruments web page. I also purchased the housing for the control panel at that page and painted it hammered copper.</p><p>Again Kudos to jmengel and the electric brewery. I learned a ton about the properties of electricty. Its been a blast to put together.</p>
<p>Did you wire a relay and switch after the SSVR? I would assume you don't need that as the rheostat goes from 0%-100%, correct?</p>
<p>Looks like a great build you put together! I'm not sure I understand how your potentiometer runs the SSR for the boil though. An SSR is on or off. Does the pot run a PWM signal (which is what mine does)? How did you do it?</p>
<p>If you go to auber instruments and look at the ssrs, they have a 40A Solid State Voltage Regulator (see link below). It's just a ssr with a pot. All I did was buy it and follow the wiring diagram on the page. I couldnt tell you how it works, only that it does works great. You can even see the boil element light dim when you turn the pot.</p><p>http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&amp;cPath=2_30&amp;products_id=353</p>
<p>Ahhh, basically a big beefy triac dimmer. Works well I bet. I'd use that in the future, but since I already had a standard SSR installed when the PID went out I opted for the PWM approach.</p>
<p>I've already ordered everything for the panel and will start my build once it all arrives. My question is what temperature probes to use and where to source them. The ones on Kal's site are a little pricey.</p>
I used the probe kits from Kal, pricey and a bit of a pain to assemble but a well considered kit and they have held up well. Actually they haven't held up all that well. My boil probe &quot;burnt out&quot; somehow due to an inductive kickback I think when someone disconnected the heater element while &quot;hot&quot;. The probe is now an open circuit, which is OK since the water is either boiling or not. The cables have held up and the burnt out probe is really no fault of the probe. I recommend skipping the boil probe anyway, if it isn't boiling, it isn't hot enough.<br><br>What alternatives? You can use whatever probes you can get your hands on. The cheap Chinese PID controllers come with some semi-decent probes that you could use, although the connectors are spade type for screwing to the back of the PID and you'd want to cut them off and add a XLR or similar style connector to match the receptacles on your control panel. Also the cables on the included probes are a bit short but since you have to add a connector you could lengthen them. So that would be the cheapest (free) option.<br><br>Otherwise eBay is a good place. I'd start with the &quot;free&quot; probes.<br>
<p>Thanks for the speedy reply. Finally got everything for the control panel in today so all I need to do now is build my box and start assembly. I own a welding and machine shop so I am building a brushed aluminum box. Other than that I'm following your directions. </p>
Very excited for this project. I'm having trouble using the DS18B20 sensor from brewhardware with the rex-c700. Any step by step suggestions? Specifically looking for input type selection and wiring configuration. Cheers!
I had a question regarding the wire diagram and the picture of your actual panel. The diagram says to put the middle prongs of the relays to the heating elements and the top(or bottom?) to the ssr. Though you have the top prongs going to the elements and the middle going to the ssr. I don't know what the picture on the relay means so I don't know how to figure it out without some help.(it's the same relay you had a link to in your parts list) any help would be great. I am building this with very little electrical experience and am mostly just using pictures and the diagram to go off of.
<p>The point of the &quot;wiring diagram&quot; above is that the output from the SSR must go to one side of the NO (normally open) contacts on the relay. The wires then continue from the relay to the heating elements such that if the relay is not energized then the heating elements will not get hot regardless of the signals being sent to the SSR. Using a multimeter you should be able to figure out which terminals on the relay are NO and which are NC (normally closed) as well as which are the coil control terminals. If all this is greek to you then I suggest you read up on relays, get some local help from someone familiar with electronics, or both. If your relays are identical to mine, my recollection is that the pair of terminals on the relays that are all alone at one end are the coil terminals and the other two pairs are NO contacts with the relay not having NC contacts. But verify with a multimeter. Good luck.</p>
<p>Hi there, I just got mine wired last night and tested it out and worked great except for one thing.</p><p>I decided to use a potentiometer for the boil and it was not controlling the heating element at all, not even turning it on. Do you have any advice for that?</p>
<p>Sounds like you don't have the boil heating element wired up correctly. There is no simple way to insert a potentiometer into the system as I have detailed it here. You want to use an SSVR in the place of the boil PID and SSR which RAgnacok linked to below and I will link to again here:</p><p>http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&amp;cPath=2_30&amp;products_id=353</p>
<p>I just finished my control panel and everything seems to be working correctly, except when I plug in the element to the outlet, it DOESN'T get hot. I'm using a MYPIN TA7 PID, there's power to the element (124v at each hot Terminal), the elements are brand new and have continuity so I' assuming they are working. One thing that is probably an indicator of a problem is the light that turns on when a particular relay for an outlet is energized. When nothing is plugged in, or if just a cord with no element is plugged in, the light stays on. If an element is attached to the cord the light goes off. What could be causing this?</p>
<p>If there is 124VAC to each terminal on the element, what is that relative to? Ground? Neutral? What do you measure across the connector to the element? You should measure 240VAC. For the element to get hot, current has to flow, so it could be that while there is voltage to the element, there isn't current flow. Possibly you have the same &quot;leg&quot; of 120VAC to both sides of the element, or downstream of the element there is an open circuit. It is really hard to troubleshoot this kind of thing verbally over the web. The light thing you mention is a clue. If the light turns off when something is plugged in, does the relay click, as in does the relay turn off? If not, then if the light goes off, then there is no voltage across the light or the element and no current. Which would explain why the element doesn't get hot. Again though, I'd have to get under the hood to really diagnose this. If you provide pictures or a drawing of what you've done that might help. Good luck, stick with it, it will be worth it in the end!</p>
<p>I know it has been a while, but I have a couple of MYPIN P4D PIDs and I found that the wiring diagram on the instruction sheet that came with them was different from the sticker on the PID itself. The polarity of the SSR outputs was reversed. The sticker on the PID was correct. You may want to take a look at that.</p>
<p>I have finished the build of my controller. I used your plans as a basis for it and made a couple modifications. I have run a bunch of tests <br> and calibrated the thermocouples. It works great! </p><p>This past weekend I christened it and brewed two batches. Five gallons of Rogue Shakespeare Stout and six gallons of a Summer Shandy Clone (for my wife). lt was so cool!!!<br> <br><br> <br>I ended up with a 120v RIMs PID circuit, a 120v/240v HLT PID circuit and <br> a 240v SCR Boil Circuit. When the 120v/240V circuit (it has an L6-30 <br>outlet) is switched to the HLT side, it runs at 120v and both it and the <br> RIMS circuit can run. The kettle element is running at 120v/1375 <br>watts. So I can re-circulate the wort in the mash while heating strike water. When it is switched to the Boil side, it disconnects and shuts <br>down the 120V RIMS circuit and runs the kettle element at 240v/5500 <br>watts. Set up like this, I can't overload my breaker. I only have a single HLT/Boil <br> kettle so I will only be using one L6-30 outlet at a time. I do have <br>two L6-30 outlets, one on the HLT/Boil PID and the other for the SCR <br>control. They are currently separated (no pun intended). To use the SCR I have to unplug <br> it from the HLT/Boil PID outlet and plug it into the SCR outlet. I can <br> still use the HLT/Boil PID to monitor temp, but it isn't controlling <br>anything. I have routed a switch recess in the back of the front bezel <br>which I plan to use for a switch to control a cutoff relay to the SCR to <br> element power connection (once I buy it and re-design the circuits).<br> <br><br> <br>I am very pleased with how it turned out. I uploaded a few pictures of it and my brewery on HomeBrewTalk. Check it out:</p><p><a href="http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/brew-controller-build-questions-507882/" rel="nofollow">http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/brew-controller-b...</a></p><p>The next project is an exhaust hood. A fan in a small basement window is a little anemic.</p><p>Thanks for all your help!</p><p>Tim</p>
<p>Thanks for the quick and detailed reply. Here is a little further explanation.</p><p>Since I am going the use the Keggle as both an HLT and Boil Kettle won't I need to heat up sparge water at the same time the RIMS is running (although with a cooler for a mash tun I could probably turn the element off for a few minutes and still maintain temp). That is why I wondered if the circuit would handle it. I was looking on the net for an amperage calculator to figure the load of the elements and hadn't found <br>one yet (I forget my Ohms law). I appreciate you telling me the loads. Now I am not sure what I will do. Am I just thinking about it wrong?</p><p> I do have another unrelated 120v/20amp GFCI protected circuit close by and could run the RIMS from there, but I really don't want two power cords or two controller boxes.</p><p>Since I am using the Keggle for both HLT and boiling I wanted to figure out a way to use the PID during HLT time and the SCR during the boil. You are right I don't need a relay with the SCR, I just need to figure out where to put a switch between the Element and the SCR and PID so I can leave the PID on during the boil and later when whirl-pooling and cooling to watch the temp. I would also like to figure out how to turn off the relays, while still monitoring temp with the PID.</p><p>I thought that the SPA panel would all be controlled by the 50 amp GFCI too. But that isn't the case, The GFCI breaker is on the same buss as the rest of the panel. I have tested it and looked at it pretty closely. If someone out there knows how I can re-wire it I would like to know. </p><p>With regards to the 50amp breaker / 30 amp circuit wiring you are right, I have wired the sub-panel as a 30amp circuit. It branches off the main panel through a 30amp breaker on the panel. If it ever draws more than 30 amps, it will blow the breaker at the main panel. It will never draw enough load to flip the 50 amp breaker. I am using it strictly as a GFCI for the 240 volt circuit. I finished remodeling my basement last year and pre-ran conduit over the ceiling to run the wire. After I was finished wiring the sub-panel I found a roll of 6 gauge wire that I forgot I bought about 10 years ago hidden behind a stack of boxes. I kicked myself a few times.</p>
<p>My understanding of sparging would suggest that using the keggle as an HLT and boil vessel would not work. To sparge, I pump hot water from the HLT over the mash and withdraw wort from the mash into the boil vessel. I'm not familiar with your setup. </p>
<p>Since I am running a 1 kettle system I have to do some juggling depending on batch size and how much sparge water I need. I have a 5 gallon water cooler I can I put the sparge water into and gravity sparge from there. If I need more than 5 gallons of sparge water, I have to drain the wort into a 5 gallon bucket until the HLT/Kettle is empty. A seperate HLT is probably going to be my next purchase.</p>
<p>I guess another option, which I hadn't thought of until now, would be to <br> run the HLT/Boil element at 120V, while the RIMs element is turned on. <br> Since the sparge water amount would not be near the volume of <br>the full boil, the time during the mash should give it plenty of time to heat up to sparging temps. <br>That might be a good solution. I would be able to keep the amperage <br>below my circuit level at about 22.5 amps and still be able to save some time doing two <br>things at once. I may need another relay. </p>
<p>Okay, I fixed the breaker tripping issue. Now my issue is with the 110 outlet for the pumps. How do I split the power between the two receptacles? I have it wired with 2 hots, each going to a toggle switch and one neutral but when I flip either toggle both recepticles have power.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you are doing, but if you are trying to switch each receptacle in a twin receptacle wall outlet then you will need to run a wire from each toggle to each receptacle separately (one toggle and one hot wire for each receptacle). and also break the connection between the receptacles on the outlet. This is done with a needle nose piers usually, breaking the brass bridge between the two wire attachment screws.</p>
<p>I didn't know I had to break the connection on the hot side. As soon as I researched it on Google it made perfect sence to me.</p>
<p>Never mind, I figured it out.</p>
<p>I am building a version of this control panel. I started a thread about it on the Electric Brewery website here: <a href="http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=308276" rel="nofollow">http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic....</a></p>
<p>OK, here is my system and what I want to do. I would appreciate some advice on feasablility and method. Up to now I have been using propane. I am building an electric brewery beacause it sounds cool and it is getting too cold to brew outside. I have been collecting parts and working on preliminary tasks for a months. I plan on building a controller based on your great Instructable. </p><p>I have some questions about modifications I would like to make and wonder where and how I should go about doing them. </p><p>First my infrastructure. I am listing prices so others will have an idea what it will cost to do this (about $400-$500 depending on what you have already). </p><p>I have run a 240Volt, 30Amp, 4 wire circuit ($14 breaker) to a subpanel in my future brewery area (my workshop - 10Ga wire)). The sub-panel is actually a Midwest Electric Spa Panel I got off ebay for about $34. I had the 10 gauge wire and conduit. It came with one 240V/50Amp GFCI breaker and slots for 4 additional normal breakers (fyi-they are NOT protected by the GFCI breaker). I know that the 50amp GFCI breaker is more than the 30 Amp circuit - I am using it for the GFCI (the breaker on the main panel will trip in an overload). I have added off of the sub-panel two 20 amp circuits, one on each leg of the 240V run from the main panel. On the 240v GFCI circuit I have a 30 Amp, 4 prong dryer outlet and an L6/20 outlet. The brew controller will plug into one of these. On each of the 20 amp circuits ($8 for breakers) I have runs to a standard 20 Amp GFCI outlet ($10 ea) which is also in front of an L5/20 outlet (I had this and 12 gauge wire and conduit for the circuits). I also have a previously installed 120V/20A GFCI circuit in the same area (off the main panel) I can use if necessary.</p><p>Now my brewing Equipment. I have built most of this recently and haven't used it yet. So this is where some of my questions will come in.</p><p>I have a 50 liter keggle with a 5400 watt ULWD ripple element (Keg-$25, Element-$28). It will run at 240V. For now I plan on using it for heating strike and sparge water as well as a boil kettle.<br>I have a 54 quart cooler I use as a mash tun (had)<br>I have a SS RIMS tube with a 5400 ULWD fold over element (about $50-SS parts - $25-Element). It will run at 120V so as to not scorth the wort.<br>1 Chugger pump with SS head.($129)</p><p>Here are the parts I can use for my controller and about what I paid for them:<br>2 - MYPIN PD4 PIDs for RIMS and HLT (these are the model with manual control) $22 ea<br>1 - 9500W High Power SCR Electronic Volt Regulator Speed Controller Governor Dimmer for Boil Control $20 - I have tested this by itself and it works great.<br>2 - SSR-40DA 40A /250V W I/O 3-32VDC/24-380VAC &amp; Heat Sink $8 ea<br>3 - MAGNECRAFT 92S7A22D-120A Relay,Power,6 Pin,DPST-NO,30A,120VAC $7 ea<br>4 - DPST Heavy Duty 20A Switches $2.25 ea<br>3 - DPDT Heavy Duty 20A Switches (ON-ON) $2.75 Ea<br>3 - DPDT Heavy Duty 20A Switches (ON-OFF-ON) $2.80 ea<br>1 - L5-20 120v outlet (Had)<br>1 - L6-30 240v outlet ($11)<br>1 - 120v duplex outlet (Had)<br>3 - Thermocouples ($15)<br>3 - XLR Outlets and plugs ($10)<br>240V lights ($5)<br>4 - two row screw terminal panels ($8)<br>Misc. elect. - connectors, 10Ga cord, wire, etc. (maybe $20 total)</p><p>Here are my questions. They are over wiring, how to use the PID and power:<br>1. Since I plan on using the keggle as both an HLT and boil kettle I am concerned with controlling these two functions. Is the manual mode on the MYPIN PIDs easy and quick enough to control and move temp up and down? I have the SCR controller/governor which works great to turn a burner up and down with the turn of a dial. I think this would lessen the chance of a boil-over while pushing buttons on the PID. What does anyone think about this?<br>2. If I were to put the SCR controller in the panel how and where in the circuit could I switch the heating element from PID to SCR? Should I just switch the element over at the PID or after the relays?. Do I need another relay for this? Can I leave the PID on to use as a thermometer on the kettle without kicking the relays on (can I turn PID controll off and leave temp monitoring on)?<br>3. Finally an important question. With both a 120v RIMS and a 240V HLT will I be able to run both of these elements at the same time on my 30 Amp circuit? I can run a seperate cord for the RIMS to the previously installed 120V/20Amp circuit but don't really want two cords coming out of my controller box and don't want to build a second one.</p><p>Thanks for any input.</p><p>Tim</p>
<p>1. Most PIDs (I don't have experience with the exact model you refer to) take only a minute or less to change the temp. The volume of water involved means that nothing happens quickly. I don't use a PID for boil, as this isn't a state that is easily maintained by a controller. The above build shows a PID for boil, but I've replaced it with a simple PWM output to the SSR controlled by a potentiometer knob. Far easier to get it boiling visually and dial it back or up as you'd do with the SCR controller knob.</p><p>2. I would remove the PID for the boil and just use the SCR between the power and the heater element. Which is to say I'd eliminate the SSR as well. Possibly retaining the selector switch and heater relays so you don't have the RIMS and the boil heaters running simultaneously. The SCR can bring the wort to boil all on its own, and maintain boil without boilover fairly easily with periodic attention on your part. The SCR would be downstream of the main relay, and you could keep the RIMS and HLT/Boil selector switch and relays to keep from running both at the same time. </p><p> 3. Do you need to run both at the same time? Your 5400W HLT element will draw 22.5 amps at 240V. The 5400W RIMS element will draw half that at 120V. Thus the total is 34 amps thereabouts and you can't run it on the 30A circuit. If the whole subpanel is connected throught the 50A GFCI breaker to the main service you could run a separate 20A circuit for the RIMS and still have GFCI protection since all circuits downstream on the subpanel will be protected if you wired it correctly. The 50A breaker will handle both as long as your wired the subpanel to 50A code. But it sounds like you only wired the subpanel to 30A code with 10 gauge wire and you thus shouldn't use the 50A breaker at all or risk a fire. Why would you want to run the RIMS and Boil at the same time anyway? Your system doesn't appear to be capable of dual batching so there sound be no need to run both.</p>
<p>OK, here is my system and what I want to do. I would appreciate some advice on feasablility and method. Up to now I have been using propane. I am building an electric brewery beacause it sounds cool and it is getting too cold to brew outside. I have been collecting parts and working on preliminary tasks for a months. I plan on building a controller based on your great Instructable. </p><p>I have some questions about modifications I would like to make and wonder where and how I should go about doing them. </p><p>First my infrastructure. I am listing prices so others will have an idea what it will cost to do this (about $400-$500 depending on what you have already). </p><p>I have run a 240Volt, 30Amp, 4 wire circuit ($14 breaker) to a subpanel in my future brewery area (my workshop - 10Ga wire)). The sub-panel is actually a Midwest Electric Spa Panel I got off ebay for about $34. I had the 10 gauge wire and conduit. It came with one 240V/50Amp GFCI breaker and slots for 4 additional normal breakers (fyi-they are NOT protected by the GFCI breaker). I know that the 50amp GFCI breaker is more than the 30 Amp circuit - I am using it for the GFCI (the breaker on the main panel will trip in an overload). I have added off of the sub-panel two 20 amp circuits, one on each leg of the 240V run from the main panel. On the 240v GFCI circuit I have a 30 Amp, 4 prong dryer outlet and an L6/20 outlet. The brew controller will plug into one of these. On each of the 20 amp circuits ($8 for breakers) I have runs to a standard 20 Amp GFCI outlet ($10 ea) which is also in front of an L5/20 outlet (I had this and 12 gauge wire and conduit for the circuits). I also have a previously installed 120V/20A GFCI circuit in the same area (off the main panel) I can use if necessary.</p><p>Now my brewing Equipment. I have built most of this recently and haven't used it yet. So this is where some of my questions will come in.</p><p>I have a 50 liter keggle with a 5400 watt ULWD ripple element (Keg-$25, Element-$28). It will run at 240V. For now I plan on using it for heating strike and sparge water as well as a boil kettle.<br>I have a 54 quart cooler I use as a mash tun (had)<br>I have a SS RIMS tube with a 5400 ULWD fold over element (about $50-SS parts - $25-Element). It will run at 120V so as to not scorth the wort.<br>1 Chugger pump with SS head.($129)</p><p>Here are the parts I can use for my controller and about what I paid for them:<br>2 - MYPIN PD4 PIDs for RIMS and HLT (these are the model with manual control) $22 ea<br>1 - 9500W High Power SCR Electronic Volt Regulator Speed Controller Governor Dimmer for Boil Control $20 - I have tested this by itself and it works great.<br>2 - SSR-40DA 40A /250V W I/O 3-32VDC/24-380VAC &amp; Heat Sink $8 ea<br>3 - MAGNECRAFT 92S7A22D-120A Relay,Power,6 Pin,DPST-NO,30A,120VAC $7 ea<br>4 - DPST Heavy Duty 20A Switches $2.25 ea<br>3 - DPDT Heavy Duty 20A Switches (ON-ON) $2.75 Ea<br>3 - DPDT Heavy Duty 20A Switches (ON-OFF-ON) $2.80 ea<br>1 - L5-20 120v outlet (Had)<br>1 - L6-30 240v outlet ($11)<br>1 - 120v duplex outlet (Had)<br>3 - Thermocouples ($15)<br>3 - XLR Outlets and plugs ($10)<br>240V lights ($5)<br>4 - two row screw terminal panels ($8)<br>Misc. elect. - connectors, 10Ga cord, wire, etc. (maybe $20 total)</p><p>Here are my questions. They are over wiring, how to use the PID and power:<br>1. Since I plan on using the keggle as both an HLT and boil kettle I am concerned with controlling these two functions. Is the manual mode on the MYPIN PIDs easy and quick enough to control and move temp up and down? I have the SCR controller/governor which works great to turn a burner up and down with the turn of a dial. I think this would lessen the chance of a boil-over while pushing buttons on the PID. What does anyone think about this?<br>2. If I were to put the SCR controller in the panel how and where in the circuit could I switch the heating element from PID to SCR? Should I just switch the element over at the PID or after the relays?. Do I need another relay for this? Can I leave the PID on to use as a thermometer on the kettle without kicking the relays on (can I turn PID controll off and leave temp monitoring on)?<br>3. Finally an important question. With both a 120v RIMS and a 240V HLT will I be able to run both of these elements at the same time on my 30 Amp circuit? I can run a seperate cord for the RIMS to the previously installed 120V/20Amp circuit but don't really want two cords coming out of my controller box and don't want to build a second one.</p><p>Thanks for any input.</p><p>Tim</p>
<p>In looking at the wiring for the keyswitch, it seems that power would need at the key to activate the relay. However the keyswitch is connected to common buss and the connection that is unpowered until the relay kicks in. Am I missing something?</p>
Ah, yes, good catch. If you look at the photo of the ratsnest below the schematic you can just see the black wire from the keyswitch disappearing into the terminal connector on the hot (black) wire from the 240VAC cable BEFORE the main relay, giving the keyswitch power at all times and thus enabling it to actually energize the main relay. As drawn the schematic is in error and would not work. I'll update that one of these days....
<p>Has the schematic been updated to reflect the correction?</p>

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