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Question 2 atheists.....? Answered

What if ur wrong?

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krusher29 (author)2011-04-14

God is like your brain you cant see or touch your brain, but you belive its there because you want to and you can only find out if it exists when you die.

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lemonie (author)krusher292011-04-15


and you can only find out if it exists when you die

Go on then, I'm interested. How can you find out that your brain/mind exists when you die?

You disagree with human biology and the likes of Descartes?

L

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kelseymh (author)krusher292011-04-14

You've never had an MRI or anti-seizure surgery, have you?

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krusher29 (author)kelseymh2011-04-15
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kelseymh (author)krusher292011-04-15

A wrong analogy subverts your argument. Find an accurate analogy.

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Lithium Rain (author)krusher292011-04-15

That doesn't shield you from being incorrect.

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Kiteman (author)krusher292011-04-15

I've seen my brain.

Maybe you mean "Mind"?

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slasinski (author)2007-06-08

The "Big Bang" and "evolution" is just a lie told by atheist. Its just propaganda with no real proff or evidence. While the Bible does have true scientific facts and actually makes sense.You half to learn how to stop falling for atheist propaganda.

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craftyv (author)slasinski2011-02-18

I am an atheist, have I fallen for my own propaganda? Silly me, I thought I'd arrived at my stance by independant thought and relevant discussion. I have to say , I have never understood how anyone can put forward the bible as "proof" of anything when it's known to have been written over time by a variety of people and sections written to include the biases and customs of those seperate times. I don't get it.

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lemonie (author)slasinski2007-06-09

I prefer atheist propaganda over theist propaganda. Please enlighten me as to these "true scientific facts" within the Bible, as I must have overlooked them. L

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Nostalgic Guy (author)lemonie2010-10-17

I'm with you on that one Lemonie.
I would love to see a couple of references to these "true scientific facts" as opposed to the obviously flawed "propaganda" of physics & anthropology.
Get your head out of the gospels & into the real world my friend; there is a place for faith in this world but not at the cost of free thinking & reason.
By suggesting that science is atheist “propaganda” you are showing yourself to be as closed minded & unyielding in your beliefs as those you are accusing.
If there truly is a god as described in the bible then according to you we are all his children, a parent loves & forgives his children unconditionally therefore by your own argument any of us who don't "believe" would be forgiven by their father in the next life, for my part any father who cannot forgive his children for their failings does not deserve my faith.

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lemonie (author)Nostalgic Guy2010-10-18

That takes me back a few years. Good comment.

L

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Aeshir (author)slasinski2007-06-09

Evolution is real, and has been proven hundreds of times over, with every generation. So you're saying that you look exactly like your one asexual parent, and that there's only microscopic organisms in the universe? If the religion here was intelligence, you'd be the atheist.

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rickharris (author)2011-02-18

If I am wrong we will ALL be surprised. For all I know this is heaven and I am rapidly heading towards the rather worse alternative. Not a happy thought.

Any value system based on supposition, faith and dubious historical documentation in my poor opinion is aligned with perpetual motion and free energy.

You get plenty of followers and advocates of both of them as well as a plethora of documentation both first hand and historical and yet neither free energy or perpetual motion can exist.

OH I know - "how do I know that"

I bet you a million Million dollars that when you die it goes black - If you find out different you can collect from me !

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crosman01 (author)2007-06-08

okay if there is no god/creator the where did we come from and the big bang theory doesn't work cause were did the gas come from?

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Kiteman (author)crosman012007-06-08

If by "all the gas", you mean hydrogen, it formed from the condensation of the vast energies of the BB (matter and energy are interchangeable, E=mc2, it's how stars an nuclear bombs work).

We evolved.

If you're going to say I'm wrong, provide evidence (not scripture, since that has been shown to be historically and scientifically inaccurate).

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crosman01 (author)Kiteman2007-06-08

okay i have a few aguments

1: why did the single celled organisms "evolve" into multi-celled organisms if they could still live fine as single celled.

2: how did it come to be every culture today belives in a/an god(s).

3: if humans evoled from monkeys and apes WHY are there still monkeys and apes.

4:how did the "hydrogen" turn into aluminum,sulfer,oxygen,ect.

5: how did sexual reproduction come about if a: there was already a way to reproduce(a.k.a. a-sexual) and b: there are billions of variables that would NEED to be correct the first try and don't give me the "over millions of years thing" cause there would only be one chance to get it right of puff there goes the speicies and furthermore even if all the variables where correct how did the baby survive after being born cause the mother would have NO maternal instinks.

6: languages don't just happen even if enough humans evoled and began <chuckle> reproducing and then came up with a language why don't we all speak the same language or language dirivitive.

7: why didn't some other animal evolve to be smarter than us.

and finally if we weren't created then what is the purpose of life <chuckle (again)> (sounds suisidal(i can't spell)).

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The Jamalam (author)crosman012010-12-26

2. That's wrong - Buddhism is one of the major world religion and doesn't involve any gods.

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Kiteman (author)crosman012007-06-09

In addition to trebuchet's comments:

1. because they could live "better" in colonies. Most single-celled organisms today do not actually live alone. Google bio-slime.

2. apart from atheists, there are cultures with no concept of a deity. Admittedly, they are few in number, but that is thanks to the efforts of missionaries.

3. Humans did not evolve from monkeys and apes, they evolved from a an ancestor common to humans, chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangs. Each species of great ape branched off at different times (orangs first, then gorillas, chimps and lastly bonobos).

3. Fusion. It's how stars work.

4 Sexual reproduction is rarer than it looks. The vast majority of living organisms reproduce asexually, but the sexual ones are more diverse and extensive - the genetic mixing that occurs during gamete fusion increases the rate at which evolution occurs, and increases the chances that specific genes survive.

For instance, when food is plentiful and conditions good, aphids reproduce asexually and rapidly (ask any gardener). When conditions deteriorate, they reproduce sexually, so that the resulting variation raises the chances of offspring/gene survival.

6. Languages evolve to suit the environment. Look at the differences between US & UK English. You call a school for young children "kindergarten", instead of "infant school", because you have had a more direct influence by Germanic languages thanks to immigration. You call the place people walk "sidewalk" bacause they were raised, wooden structures beside the mud roads of frontier town.

And languages do just happen - there have been several documented cases of isolated deaf/dumb communities coming up with their own, unique sign language, with a grammatic structure completely different from that of the co-habiting non-deaf locals.

7. Who says they didn't? "Smart" is hard to define. Our intelligence has not increased significantly since before we were tool-users. OUr education has. Who says other species evolved an equal or greater intelligence than ours, but did not develop a culture that left physical traces before becoming extinct?

Who says dolphins or octopi are not as intelligent as us? There brains are as complex, they are capable of laguage and problem solving, they are just restricted technologically by living underwater (no fire).

Finally: who says Life has to have a grand purpose given by a higher being?

A quick survey of prison inmates reveals that the proportion of strong believers is far higher than in the general population. Almost no prison inmates are atheists.

Do a similar survey of people with a "higher purpose" in life (they dedicate a large part of their own life to the betterment of others without view to profit), and far more of them are atheists than the general population. I am a teacher and a Cub leader.

Doesn't that suggest that you are more likely to have a purpose in life if you have no religion inflicted on you?

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trebuchet03 (author)Kiteman2007-06-09

Doesn't that suggest that you are more likely to have a purpose in life if you have no religion inflicted on you?

That's an interesting concept.... This "purpose" (really a fluid term isn't it) seems to be easier to find in religion -- because your purpose has been laid out for you, written down etc. Outside of this (lets call it bondage), you're free to select your own "purpose."

Iono, I spent all of 10 seconds on that :p

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Aeshir (author)crosman012007-06-09

The purpose of life is itself. We're alive because that's what makes us alive. It' really hard to explain.

Listen to Kiteman, he knows his 1337. Go be retard somewhere else, stupid religious person.

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trebuchet03 (author)crosman012007-06-08

1. Define "just live fine" -- it's very hard for small objects to move. It only makes sense to get bigger when you're so small it takes an enormous amount of energy to move (if you're an organism that moves).

2. I can think of a few reasons... like "join us or die" (in more eloquent terms of course). Which would explain why today, I can't think of a culture without it. Well, yes I can. It's called the atheist culture (notice, it's not a religion) ;) But that's not to say their have been cultures without.

3. Not monkeys -- just one specie of ape. And not all apes as you'll notice "Ape" is not a species. You'll need to refresh yourself on the subject before asking more questions (it's obvious someone didn't do their homework :p). And no one has ever said that an evolutionary jump requires the extinction of the previous specie. Well, I have heard that from the more religious community.

4. Easy -- just add energy. Hydrogen by itself is rather unstable anyway :p

5. a) asexual reproduction - aka: cloning works fine to a point. There needs to be some form of external stimuli at some point to keep variability. b) actually, there's really not that much -- 20,000 to 25,000 genes. The "billions" thing is just a way to make ourselves sound more interesting. That being said -- it's not that big a deal considering apes are 98% similar genetically.

6. What do you mean "languages just don't happen." Really, if it just happened, there would be some sort of divine creation there :p But, that being said -- look at the similarity between languages. Romance languages -- all from Latin. English happens to be a Proto-English derivative from Germanic tribes. We all speak a derivative of a small handful of primitive languages. Evolution in progress -- survival of the "best" languages.

7. Give it time. This process didn't happen in a week ;) Hrm, if IQ is any indication -- we consistently are evolving into "smarter" animals. Not to mention taller too.

8. Simple: 42. Ask google -- the answer to life, the universe, and everything

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frank26080115 (author)crosman012007-06-08

1. random mutations, it's a part of the theory of evolution, if cells who wanted to stick together survived better than single units, then they are more likely to continue to live together and eventually cooperate 2. because humans strive for acceptance from other humans, and early humans had no explanation, but made up stories to entertain the young also people want to rule other people, kings need religion so they can be king, or else they can't say they were appointed by god 3. humans did not evolve from monkeys and apes monkeys and apes and humans all evolved from an animal which does not exist anymore also monkeys and apes lived in an enviroment which did not require standing upright and intelligence to survive 4. How does the sun work? It's called nuclear fusion When a big star collapses, so much fusion can occur that hydrogen can turn into heavy masses of metal 5. mixing genes increased diversity and thus increased the chances of survival also what if only little genes were shared at first, and not via sperm and egg? 6. humans have good vocal cords, we learn from our parents, during the learning process one generation to the next, slight variations occur, also groups split up, and since different languages rarely meet in the past (there wasn't 6 billion of us), it wasn't possible to standardize. 7. There is got to be a maximum, as far as we know, we are it. except maybe for people like you

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frank26080115 (author)crosman012007-06-08

I believe in helping out humanity as much as I could (it's called being nice without religion, try it sometimes), in order to contribute to humanity, I think I should stay alive That is the purpose of my life I have set for myself the first time a religious zealot brought this up Also, if we were created, then what is the purpose of life?

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Andrew546 (author)crosman012007-06-08

I'll answer the ones I know. (Just because I don't answer some doesn't mean there aren't answers, it just means I personally don't know them off the top of my head)

2: People look for ways to explain the strange phenomenon in the world. (Lightning, earthquakes, floods, unexplained death, etc) Without scientific knowledge, this leads to the idea of some higher power.

3: Humans did not evolve from monkeys and apes. Apes, monkeys, and humans did however, evolve from a common ancestor.

6: Language evolves too. It may start as simply grunts in the beginning, and develop over time. Its not like one day someone just woke up and started talking.

7: Pure luck.

Whoever said there was a purpose to life? For all we know, there might not be a purpose.

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Kiteman (author)Kiteman2007-06-08

Blast, I wasn't going to respond to more Creationist nonsense. Superstition belongs elsewhere, not here, but I can't let it pass without comment, just in case somebody lacking a sound education falls for it. We don't want the Kansas Cancer spreading.

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NachoMahma (author)crosman012007-06-08

. Well, if you can accept that God has always been there, ie, God has no Creator; He just _is_ and always has been, then why not the same for the Universe? . Maybe the Big Bang is not the beginning of The Universe, just the beginning of our's. I have seen nothing that convinces me the BB was not preceded by a "Big Crunch" of the previous Universe. Our Universe may collapse and produce the next BB. Over and over and over again.

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Kiteman (author)NachoMahma2007-06-09

Latest data is that the "Big Crunch" will not occur - there isn't enough mass to slow the expansion. I'm afraid the Future isn't Bright, it's Cold.

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Vendigroth (author)Kiteman2007-06-09

so everything'll keep spreading out, until the known universe is a plethora of dead stars smeared pitifully thin across an infinite void?

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Aeshir (author)Vendigroth2007-06-09

Yeah, I saw a show about that.

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Vendigroth (author)Aeshir2007-06-09

if it wasn't called big brother, i don't believe you LAWLZ

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lemonie (author)Vendigroth2007-06-09

Very good! (I'm not sure whether our friends on the other side of the Atlantic will get the Big Brother reference though?) L

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Vendigroth (author)lemonie2007-06-09

BAH! well, if they don't i'll a'splain in my own terms of course.

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Vendigroth (author)Aeshir2007-06-09

i didn't expect you to, really, so i'll explain Big brother is a reality tv gameshow, of sorts. a number of people, as wildly disparate and incompatible are placed in a closed environemnt (a house and garden) for a period of time, i think 72 days or something. Something like once a week, the viewers (of which i am not one) ring phonelines to vote which of the contestants get evicted from the house. Typically, all the people who get into the house are paid fees, but the last one in the house, the person who has managed to entertain the public the most by being the bitchiest/stupidest of divertingiest gets a large amount of money. The people chosen for this vacuous competition usually stop talking to each other 4 days in, ans sulk for the rest of the time. A wiki-ing on your part will gather more information.

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KentsOkay (author)Vendigroth2007-06-10

I thought Big Brother was a security system?

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Vendigroth (author)KentsOkay2007-06-10

that as well, but the people in the house are observed pretty much 24/7 i s'pose it was named after the novel 1984, by Arthur C Clarke (i think) wherein the people of some country are under constant observation. sort of like here.

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craftyv (author)Vendigroth2010-10-20

I thought 1984 was written by George Orwell who was an Englishman. point is made though that it's about a society where every move was watched by a strict police/govt. authority that restricted free thought and altered people's behaviour. That's where, the now generic "Big Brother" comes from. Great chat.

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Vendigroth (author)Aeshir2007-06-09

BAH! i forgot to mention that the winners are usually enshrined as minor celebrities and crop up in glossy mags for years after. Jade goody made a lot of money out of it, 's a matter of fact, its just a shame she's an unintellectual bigot, really "i'm not thick, i just can't talk or write properly" hmmm...?

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Vendigroth (author)lemonie2007-06-09

BAH! werl, if they don't i'll a'splain

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Kiteman (author)Vendigroth2007-06-09

There won't even be stars, just the smeared bit.

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Weissensteinburg (author)Kiteman2007-06-09

Why does the universe expanding mean that we will be destroyed?

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Kiteman (author)Weissensteinburg2007-06-10

It's not the expansion as such, it's the spreading of energy. For anything to happen, there must be an energy gradient - if two objects have identical energies, energy can't flow, so nothing can happen. No action is 100% efficient, so every time something happens, energy is lost to the universe in general, warming it slightly. When the universe is the same temperature as the things in it, energy will not be able to flow, so nothing will be able to happen. But we'll (Humanity) will be long gone before that happens, as will our Sun, so let's just focus on curing GW before we worry about UW.

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Weissensteinburg (author)Kiteman2007-06-10

As long as i'm dead before any of that happens, it's ok =P

What do you personally think will wipe out humanity? A world war? A meteor shower? The sun dieing out?

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Kiteman (author)Weissensteinburg2007-06-10

Resource starvation (triggering wars, disease etc). The resources being oil/energy, water, arable land, living space (rising population & sea level), even oxygen.

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i can think of 2 things 1: War, obv, either amongst ourselves or..someone else. 2: Disaster. like you said, a meteor or comet, or something. Maybe plague. If Ebola gets out, it's reckoned that 90% of people'll be dead in 6 months.

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Vendigroth (author)Kiteman2007-06-09

the paralells between the end of all that exists and big brother continue to amaze me.

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crosman01 (author)NachoMahma2007-06-08

it's not that he has always been but that he exists outside of time therefore alowing him to just be though it sounds kinda funny, but still better than the mother earth thing(not to say athiests belive that)

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Kiteman (author)crosman012007-06-09

What is you evidence for saying your version of a creator lives outside of time?

What makes your jealous, wilful, murderous, inconsistant, plagarised god better than a nurturing, supportive goddess?

(Not that I'm supporting either, but if I had to choose one (say, deciding who to cheer for in the crowd at an interfaith football match), I'd go for Gaia every time).

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crosman01 (author)NachoMahma2007-06-08

but that still doesn't answer the question the entire argument is about "where did we come from"

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