Grind and Polish a Dobsonian/Newtonian Telescope Mirror With Hand Tools

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Introduction: Grind and Polish a Dobsonian/Newtonian Telescope Mirror With Hand Tools

About: We're the spectrUM Discovery Area, a hands-on science museum in Missoula, MT. We have a physical museum located within the Missoula Public Library, but also create science kits, lead teacher professional devel…

Author's note: This Instructable was written and published by our Making and Tinkering Programs Manager, who's personal Instructable account we co-opted. He is now publishing personal Instructables over at member ID MechaNickW.

Making a telescope about 10 years ago was one of the most rewarding projects I've ever undertaken. I ground the mirror and made every other component out of recycled materials as much as possible. This Instructable will cover how to grind a mirror for your telescope - I'll link to other sources for building the other aspects of a telescope. I'm entering this into the Hand Tools Only Contest, so be sure to vote if you get inspiration or good info from this!

This style of reflecting telescope was actually invented by Isaac Newton, so the optical system is called a Newtonian telescope. The mount style that I used is sort of like a cannon mount, and was originally designed by John Dobson, so called a Dobsonian. It's a dead simple mount to build and I highly recommend it if you are looking to build a telescope.

The process for grinding telescope mirrors at home actually doesn't look too much different than when Isaac Newton first developed it, and he didn't have any power tools. John Dobson was a monk and did much of his work in secret from his brotherhood. Both of these individuals were very interesting characters, google them on Wikipedia if you want some interesting bits of history!

Anyway, it's amazing the precision you can achieve simply with some glass, grit, pine pitch and a lot of work. I've heard that this is literally the highest amount of precision a human can achieve with simple hand tools! Just grinding the telescope mirror probably took 80-100 hours for me, but I was learning a lot and taking my time. I'm entering this into the Hand Tools Only Contest because when I did this project that's all I had!

Supplies

  • 2 pieces of glass - one will be the mirror, the other is the tool you will use to grind it. Mine were plate glass 6.25" in diameter for the mirror and 5.75" in diameter for the tool, 3/4" thick. You can buy glass blanks online, in addition to other telescope making supplies at First Hand Discovery.
  • A variety of grinding grits and polish grits, also available at the supplier linked above. It is best and easiest and cheapest to get a kit that is for your diameter of telescope mirror, 6", 8", 10", 12" etc. are common sizes and each will need different amounts of grit.
  • Pine pitch, should come in your kit of grits and such.
  • A work surface to grind on - I used some old dresser thing I found on the curb and weighted the bottom with bricks, a 50 gallon barrel is a very common surface.
  • Some scrap wood or plastic and a couple of screws.
  • A knife sharpening stone (also called a carborundum stone).
  • A good toothbrush or bristle brush.
  • 5 gallon bucket.
  • Soap and water
  • Old newspaper, cardboard or carpet.
  • A chunk of window screen (NOT metal, the plastic kind)
  • A squirt bottle or two
  • A small paint brush
  • A ruler and measuring tape
  • Calipers
  • Small drill bit set or feeler gauge
  • A light (I used an old bike light, almost anything like a flashlight or your phone light is good)
  • A magnifying glass or telescope eyepiece
  • A razor blade
  • Turpentine, acetone, mineral spirits or another solvent and a towel
  • An old soup can
  • Sterno can or stove
  • For testing, you'll need to build a focault tester. I built mine with hand tools out of things from my recycle bin, here's a great Instructable for making one of these.

Step 1: Determine Your Mirror's Focal Length and Sagitta

You'll want to first determine the shape of your mirror and the focal length that it will eventually have. When designing a telescope of this style, there is a very, very handy tool called Newt for the Web. You can put in your mirror diameters for the one we'll be making (primary mirror) and the secondary mirror, as well as the focal length of the primary mirror, and it will give you a lot of other parameters for your telescope that are necessary to consider as you grind your telescope mirror.

Really we want two things here to calculate what we need to know - the focal length and the focal ratio. The focal length is simply the length from the surface of your mirror to where the image will focus. I was shooting for about 48". The focal ratio is the ratio between this length and the diameter of your mirror, a very common one is f/8 (48" divided by 6"). Mine ended up being about f/7.6, this is not super critical to hit on the nose. What we want in this step is just to determine what your end result should be so we can calculate how much glass we're going to remove from the flat surface of your mirror.

To get this measurement, you need to use the formula r^2/2R. That's the radius of the mirror squared over 2 times the radius of curvature. I know it sounds confusing, but the radius of curvature is twice the focal length (96") - I like to think of this as a big invisible sphere to which the mirror is attached, and the sphere is taking a chunk out of the surface of the mirror. Here, it's 3 squared over 192, which is 0.0459 inches, round it to 0.046. To take the headache out of this and a lot of other measurements, use this handy calculator from Stellafane. You won't need to do any math, just enter the measurements and you're good!

Step 2: Build Your Work Surface and Start Hogging Out Glass

Once you have your sagitta calculated so you know when to stop grinding, it's time to roll up your sleeves and dig in (get it, cuz you're digging into the glass?! oh, nevermind). I took this old dresser thing I found for free on the curb and filled the bottom with bricks - again, a 50 gallon barrel is great, add water inside to weight it or sand or rocks, etc. You'll create some cleats on the top - glue a piece of plywood down if you're using a barrel and screw the cleats to that. These cleats need to be shorter than the thickness of the mirror so you don't hit them, and they should be placed so that the mirror and tool both can fit in there. They keep your mirror and tool in place as you are grinding. My mirror was bigger than my tool so I made another wedge piece that fit in there to keep the tool in place when it's on the bottom. I used some crappy plywood, I would recommend a chunk of thick plastic or nicer wood - you need to clean these a lot and all the little cracks and such were a pain to get cleaned out. Put down some newspaper on the bottom or cardboard or a chunk of old carpet to help keep the mirror from slipping around.

Before you start and as you go along, take a carborundum stone (I just bought the cheapest knife sharpening stone I could find at the hardware store) and bevel the edge of your tool and mirror. This will get ground away so just check it periodically as you work and keep a slight 45 degree bevel to it. This prevents the edge of both pieces from getting too sharp then chipping.

When people ask, "How do you make a telescope mirror?" my answer is usually, "You take two circles of glass and rub them together for a long time with sandpaper grit in between." That is what you will be doing. For a while. When the tool is on top (usually abbreviated TOT), the curve in the mirror becomes deeper. When the mirror is on top (MOT), the curve becomes shallower. Take your roughest grit, typically #60 or #80, and put a spoonful on the mirror, which will be on the bottom for the first part. Add some water, use a spray bottle or a squirt bottle. ALWAYS WORK WET - if you don't add water, you can make a bunch of silica dust from the mirror which is terrible for your lungs and health.

There are a couple of different strokes we'll be using for this process, to start use a chordal stroke, as shown here. It's a large amount of overhang that you reduce as you create the curve in your mirror. You'll do the chordal stroke, then take a step around the barrel, then do the stroke, then take a step, etc. What we want here is randomness with regard to the orientation of the mirror and tool - the more random the better. Don't "spin" the tool over the surface of the mirror, but pull it back off and put back on in random ways.

This part is loud. As the grit wears away, runs off, and works the mirror it will get quieter. Grab your 5 gallon bucket and fill it part way with water. When the grit wears down, rinse it off in the bucket, put it back on the work stand, and add another spoonful of grit. Literally, rinse and repeat. This is called one wet. You'll need to do a number of wets to get through rough grinding. What we are doing here is simply shaping the mirror to the desired sagitta, then the rest of the work will be progressively making the surface of the mirror smoother and smoother.

The video shows about 30 minutes of this process on another mirror that I'm making for my nephew.

Step 3: Measure Sagitta and Focal Length and Finish Hogging

You should do a number of wets and start to see the surface of the mirror get kind of frosty from the sanding you are doing. Once it frosts all the way to the edge, take a quick measurement of your sagitta. There are a number of ways to do this. When I made my first mirror I had little money and access to tools. You can buy a feeler gauge set, which is just a bunch of strips of metal of predetermined and indicated thickness. Or you can make or buy a spherometer, a tool that measures the sagitta with high precision with a dial gauge - for a telescope I'm making now, I 3D printed this one.

BUT, you don't have to use these fancy tools, and I certainly didn't. Neither did Newton or Dobson. If you have a set of very small drill bits (which are useful for a lot of other things anyway), take a pair of calipers and measure them. Find one that is closest to the measurement of your sagitta that you calculated, and hog out the glass until it fits in between a straight edge (I used a metal ruler but a wooden one or nice piece of wood is fine) and the center of your mirror. I was a bicycle mechanic at the time, and happened to discover that a bicycle derailleur cable was exactly the diameter that I needed, 1.2mm or 0.045 inches. This is all I used to keep tabs on this measurement.

Keep using the tool on top and grinding away until you can fit your cable, drill bit or feeler gauge between the straight edge and the center of the mirror then stop. You'll hog out the glass with the roughest grit until you reach the desired sagitta.If you overshoot, that's okay! Just put the tool on the bottom and the mirror on top, then grind until the sagitta decreases. As you do this, sometimes the mirror and tool won't fit together perfectly and there will be bubbles in there - that's okay at this step, as you work through fine grinding though, seeing these can be a sign of a problem.

Another way to measure your mirror is to determine the focal length using a light. This is ultimately the most important thing we're going for here, the sagitta measurement is just a quicker way to do it. But you can take your mirror after it's ground at this stage, spray some water on it, and get it to reflect an image. Where that image focuses most clearly is the radius of curvature, which is twice the focal length. If you want to do it this way or double-check your work, just take a piece of cardboard or a cereal/snack box and poke a small hole in it. Put a flashlight inside. Take a measuring tape and your mirror with wetted, reflective surface and go into a dark room. Hold the mirror at about the distance of your radius of curvature (ROC) and see how clearly the mirror reflects the pinprick of light. Move towards the light or away until the reflection is the clearest - that is your ROC so see what that distance is on your measuring tape, divide by half for your focal length. If it's too short, grind some more with the tool on top. If too long, grind with the mirror on top.

Step 4: Work Through Fine Grinding

Once you've got your sagitta/focal length at the desired measurement, the rest of the work you do on the mirror is really just making the surface of it very, very smooth. Like, the most perfect thing you can do with a set of hand tools and crude measuring tools. Ultimately, when you are done you want the difference between the highest peak on the surface of your mirror and the lowest valley to be about 590 nanometers, the wavelength of sodium emitted light. You read that right. And it's possible to do!

So, take your mirror and the next roughest grit. Hereafter, we don't want to change the shape of the mirror too much, so alternate having the mirror on top for a few wets, then the tool on top, then mirror, etc. I would track mine and the number of wets with each grit with sharpie tallies on the cardboard. For a mirror I'm making now I found this weird counter thing at a garage sale and used it, but marks on piece of paper work just fine.

You'll use a different stroke here, called the Normal Stroke. which is just pushing the tool straight over the center of the mirror. The overhang to which you will push/pull this is important, in this part it's 1/3. That's 1/3 of the mirror diameter in total, so 1/6th forward, 1/6th back. If your mirror is 6" in diameter, push the tool until it overhangs 1", then pull it back until it overhangs 1", and repeat. The Stellafane website has a guide to strokes, and is an invaluable resource for all aspects of this project, I highly recommend you read through it before even starting this project. This is the stroke you'll use through all of fine grinding and most of polishing, so get comfortable with it early on.

Do a few wets (maybe like 10-15) with your grit, and then look at the surface of your mirror. You want all of the pits in the surface to be about the same size - it will be easy to see pits from the previous, rougher grit as they will be larger and sparklier than the ones you are making with a smaller grit. You'll work with a grit until all of the pits from the previous one are gone and the surface is uniform - if you see large pits, keep going! Use a magnifying glass, or alternatively a telescope eyepiece that you look through backwards - you'll need one of those later anyways to look through your telescope. You can also hold it up at an angle to the light and the larger pits will scatter more light than the small ones.

Once you have finished with a grit, clean, clean, clean everything. Take a toothbrush and soap and water, remove your cleats and throw out the cardboard/newspaper, and make sure that Every. Single. Piece. of old grit is washed off the mirror, work surface, etc. Get it out of the screw heads for your cleats, wash the bucket super well, etc. Honestly, this is the most frustrating and annoying part of making a telescope - you have to clean everything very, very well between grits so that a grain of larger grit isn't between your mirror and tool when you are working with a finer one to scratch the mirror. I found that I would spend as much time cleaning up after a grit size as grinding with it, but it's important so take care with it!

As you work through grits, periodically check your sagitta to make sure you're not altering your focal length. If you're drifting too long or short, compensate by putting the mirror on top more or tool on top more. Remember to periodically chamfer the edge of your mirror and tool as you go.

When you get to the very fine grits, having warm water helps a bit for your wets. Also, be very mindful of the fact that you are making these two surfaces fit together almost perfectly, and if you have too little grit or water in between a vacuum can form and they can get stuck together. If this starts to happen, try to push through the stroke during which they stick. If they stick completely, you can soak them in warm (not too hot) water and see if they will dislodge. I also found it easier to make a slurry with the very fine powders towards the end of fine grinding, and paint it on the mirror.

Once you get to your finest grinding grit, we'll move onto polishing and figuring!

Step 5: Pour a Pitch Lap for Polishing

Your mirror might look pretty smooth and nicely finished at the end of fine grinding, but in reality it's pretty rough. You'll need to polish it to achieve the ultimate smoothness required to ensure that it reflects all the photons from cool things in space appropriately. To do this, you'll pour what's called a pitch lap. As with everything else, this goes back to Isaac Newton - it's crazy that heating and pouring basically tree sap onto a chunk of rock that you can polish something to be almost imperceptively perfect!

Pitch is an interesting material - when at room temperature, it's technically flowing very slowly (there's a fascinating long-term science experiment called the Pitch Drop Experiment if you have interest). When heated it flows very easily. What it does is conform itself perfectly to the shape of your mirror surface so that it polishes it evenly across without making depressions and scratches. Remember, at the end of polishing we will have a surface that deviates between lowest and highest point on the nanometer scale.

To do this, take your mirror and tool and put them in the sink with some hot water. Not so hot that it's scalding, but pretty warm. If the mirror and tool are too cool here, dunking them in the water will thermally shock them and they can crack so make sure they are at room temp. We're doing this because we'll be adding hot pitch to both, and they need to be similar in temperature to the pitch. Take your pitch container and heat it over a stove, put it in plastic to warm in the microwave, or take a can of sterno or a camping stove and heat it like I did. USE CAUTION WITH FLAME - the pitch is semi-flammable as are the vapors, I used a taller can to ensure they escaped instead of catching fire but be careful here. You can add turpentine if it's too thick (shouldn't be necessary if you bought your pitch in a kit - they ensure that it's the right consistency), and that stuff can catch fire.

Once your pitch is nice and gooey, take your mirror and coat it with your polishing compound and water (usually cerium oxide). Don't coat the tool - in fact, take some alcohol or acetone or turpentine and wipe the surface off - we want the pitch to stick to it very well, finger oils can prevent that. Then, take your pitch and pour it slowly in a circle on your tool, working towards the center. We want to work while this is all warm so you have to work somewhat quickly here. Then, take your mirror and put it on top of your tool and squish it down a bit. You'll want to end up with a layer of pitch that's about 1/8" thick. Funny story here: I was doing this with the guidance of my good friend who's a telescope maker, I was being a little to cautious here squishing them together. He told me to stand back and then just STEPPED on my mirror and tool. And it worked great. It's good to have friends you can trust!

Note that the pitch is very sticky, put some paper down and try not to get it all over the place. Once you have poured the lap, we need to cut some facets in it so that it has a lot of surface area to polish the mirror. Take a box knife/razor blade and cut some channels in it so that you have about 1" squares. NOTE: you do NOT want this to be so that you have a channel at the very center of your tool and mirror, that can mess things up. Offset your center channel from the center about 1/4" or 1/2", then work out from there. Then, dunk your pitch lap tool in some warm water to soften the pitch a bit. Take a bit of nylon (NOT METAL) window screen, and place it in between the mirror and lap. Add some of your polishing compound and water slurry. Squish it down a bit. This will create a bunch of small microfacets in your lap. As you polish, you will need to clean out the big facets as the pitch squishes together and refresh these microfacets.

Between polishing sessions, I'll note that you should store your pitch and tool together with tool or mirror on top so the pitch retains the shape of your mirror's surface, and they should be in an airtight container.

Step 6: Polish and Figure Your Mirror

Now, you'll use the normal stroke as in fine grinding and polishing agent to get the surface of your mirror super smooth. It's best to do these sessions in at least 1ish hour increments - the polish works better after 10-15 min of warming up from the first strokes and the pitch really conforms best after a bit of friction. Don't worry if one or two of the edge pieces of pitch slides off - if they start to crack or something, take a razor blade and remove them completely so they don't end up between your mirror and lap.

As with fine grinding, keep everything CLEAN. No dust, other pieces of grit from previous grinding, etc. This is best done indoors not in a dusty garage. I've heard that getting pet hair in there doesn't seem to matter but I would avoid it. You don't want anything to scratch your mirror at this point, because you'll either have to live with it or go back to grinding and grind out the scratch which would be a huge pain.

After a few hours of polishing you can check the surface. I've heard you can use a laser pointer at a steep angle on the mirror and if it's not polished you can see some scatter. I didn't have one of those, I just kept polishing until I could see no more pits in any way and the mirror looked almost completely clear and perfect on the front face. When you are done with polishing you want zero pits and a completely clear surface.

I wanted to get my mirror as perfect as possible, and to do that you need to use a very fine polish. In addition to cerium oxide I used jeweler's rouge, basically a very fine rust powder. All of the warnings about this stuff say that it stains everything, but I wasn't too concerned. I ended up staining my kitchen counter a bit, permanently. Also, my cat jumped up on the polishing table and got some on him, and he was pink for like two weeks. Don't be like me, use caution with the rouge and don't get it on anything you don't want to be pink/red!

I'm going to gloss over the figuring part of the mirror - that is a whole Instructable on its own. Fortunately, there is this great one that talks about how to make a focault tester and test your mirror. I made my Foucault tester out of literal trash and recyclables with nothing more than a hacksaw, hand drill, file and some chunks of a cutting board. Use what you have! If you want to avoid using a focault tester, you can do a Ronchi test instead - that just involves a light and a small transparency with a bunch of lines on it. I ordered my grate transparency at Willman-Bell. You'll need to do some research as to what number of lines you'll need on it. It's not as exhaustive of an optical test as focault testing (or *shudder* caustic testing), but if you are just trying to get a mirror that you are reasonably happy with that you made yourself it's totally acceptable.

You'll need to test your mirror to see how spherical it is and if there are any issues, then polish it to a parabola. Stellafane has good resources on navigating this - it's a tricky thing to do but if you keep a log (recommended) of the process, you can get to a good result. I had help from a seasoned telescope maker, and am grateful for that. It takes patience and perseverance, but if you've come this far through this Instructable you have what it takes to finish it off!

Step 7: Send Off for Coating (optional, Informational Reading Past This Point)

This part and all that follows is all just for informational purposes since I had the fortunate opportunity to visit the coating facility where I had my mirror coated. Normally, you do all of the above steps then mail it to a coating facility where they coat it with aluminum and then send it back. I lived near a coating facility at the time in Iowa. I reached out and explained that I was just some rando who made his own little mirror and wanted to see the process they used to coat them. They graciously allowed me to awkwardly stand around in the facility and pepper the poor technician with questions over two days about how this works, so I thought I'd share that part simply because it's rather interesting.

Reflecting telescopes were originally made of metal, and the mirror was called a speculum. Metal is not as good as glass for a lot of reasons in telescopes, but it was shiny. Once techniques came along to coat glass with silver, metal was no longer used. Today, the mirrors are coated in aluminum - it doesn't tarnish as easily as silver. Mine is coated in aluminum, then a layer of tantalum pentoxide to increase how reflective it is, then a small layer of glass to seal it all.

How this is achieved is cool - they have a huge vacuum chamber that pulls a very strong vacuum. The mirrors are mounted on a big plate with the surface facing downward. They are placed in the top of the chamber and it's closed up, and a vacuum is pulled - this takes several hours. (In fact a day in my case - it was summer and the chamber equipment was overheating periodically, so we had to leave it overnight).

Once the vacuum is pulled, a couple of small pellets of aluminum are heated in a crucible at the bottom of the chamber. The crucible is heated and the aluminum is vaporized - it flows through the chamber and evenly coats the surface of the mirror and everything else in the chamber. There is a complicated quartz sensor that vibrates at a specific resonant frequency, and as the aluminum (or whatever else) is deposited on this sensor, it changes how it vibrates. Using this sensor, the technician can tell how many angstroms (a small, small unit of measurement) of material are deposited. Once the aluminum is done, tantalum pentoxide is then vaporized onto the surface to increase the albedo (reflectivity), then a thin layer of silica glass to seal it all up so that it doesn't tarnish.

After it's all coated, the vacuum is released and they pull the mirrors out all nice and shiny.

Step 8: Install in Telescope and Enjoy!

There are many resources to use when building your telescope. I love the book "All About Telescopes" by Sam Brown/Edmund Scientific (bonus: lots of drawings and interesting facial hair from the 1970s). It's out of print but easy to find used copies. "Build Your Own Telescope" by Richard Berry is very good too - lots of designs and techniques that are great. The books/resources recommended by Stellafane (again, read that website fully if you want a complete picture of this whole process) and here at Willman-Bell are all very useful.

I hope this Instructable demonstrates that making your telescope mirror can be done with a few simple hand tools, some research and a bit of persistence. I've used my telescope extensively since building it, and I learned a lot about how optics work and many things about woodworking and building that I've used since.

If you find this useful or inspirational, please vote for it in the Hand Tools Only Contest. Clear skies!

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    22 Comments

    0
    NEW PEW
    NEW PEW

    1 year ago

    Great Instructable! Congrats with being a finalist in the Hand tools only challenge!

    0
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Hey, thanks! Same to you - really liked your apple puzzle Instructable, that is such a clever idea and really liked how you made the curved tool from an aluminum can.

    0
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Hey, thanks much! It's gratifying to share this fun project with everyone and as a bonus get the satisfaction of winning something in this contest!

    It's always amazed me how you can grind your own mirror with a parabolic shape. When I was a kid I tried to make a reflecting telescope with a shaving mirror with predictable results.

    0
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Right? The first person I met that had made his own telescope (similar in design to mine, actually) I was like, "Wait, you can grind your own mirror? Tell me more!". I like the reflecting telescope with a shaving mirror - kudos for making a reflector! I've messed around with a few designs for kids to make them, finally settled on a refractor that uses cheap magnifying glasses, some surplus optics lenses and a 3D printed cowling to fit cardboard tubes (one of which is a toilet paper tube). See here: https://www.instructables.com/Toilet-Paper-Tube-Te...

    0
    jonfre
    jonfre

    1 year ago

    http://www.klima-luft.de/steinicke/ngcic/persons/r... takes you to the giant telescope and the Earl of Ross who built it in his castle. Incidentally, his son invented the enormously successful steam turbine.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Algernon_Par... .
    The mirrors were ground by a small steam engine with multi-stage rope and flywheel down gearing and a counterbalanced oscillatory tool support.
    Everything was manufactured in-house , including the mirror metal foundry. And just look at the ingenious observer lift (Newtonian eyepiece is at the top of the tube). All held up by ropes and steered by teams of hefty assistants.
    The mirror was removed for cleaning by a railway trolley.

    If you are ever in Ireland , do not miss the opportunity to pay homage to Leviathan. In the adjoining field is a plantation of dipoles....
    Birr is a charming country town and the landscape is lovely.

    0
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Thanks for these links and history! If you (and everyone else) is curious, there is a fantastic history of the telescope that details this and other aspects of how this scientific instrument has evolved throughout history. It's called "Star Gazer: The Life and Times of the Telescope", by Fred Watson. Link here: https://www.amazon.com/Stargazer-Times-Telescope-F... I thoroughly enjoyed it, managed to randomly pick it up at a used book store and it's one of my greatest finds there.

    0
    diykiwibloke
    diykiwibloke

    1 year ago

    Amazing, thank you! I went through the process of grinding a 6" mirror as a teenager and always wondered how mirrors are aluminized - even though mine was silvered, which doesn't last as long and eventually tarnishes. My first ever late-twilight view of the moon blew my mind. So sharp, clear and magnificent!

    0
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Here's a photo of how they do a re-coat - was replying to some other comments and thought I'd dig it up for you. The big mirror is my friend's 12" (I think - can't remember exactly) Cave Optics mirror, the smaller one is his secondary mirror. They make a dam with tape and pour the muriatic acid on and leave it until the entire coating dissolves, dump it off and rinse in water then coat as described. It took almost a full 8 hours for the coating to dissolve.

    P1040438.jpeg
    0
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Yeah, I felt very fortunate to be able to be around for that part of things. I wish I had taken more and better photos of it all. It was particularly neat to look through the view port to watch the metals in the crucible melt and vaporize, and see the mirror slowly start to take on a shine! You can always have yours re-coated - they will soak the face of the mirror in muriatic acid to remove the finish, then recoat with aluminum. You don't have to do any re-figuring or polishing or anything, and from my understanding that's not much more than having a mirror coated in the first place. I brought a friend of mine's along to be recoated when I had mine coated and this is what they did with it.

    0
    JeremyR6
    JeremyR6

    1 year ago

    My last mirror was 10" F/6 using a quarz disk. This is extremely hard, it took 3 days to rough it with no. 60 carborundum. Quarz has the advantage over pyrex in that the thermal conductivity is very high, so that it adapts to temperature changes faster. It turned out nicely, the RMS wavefront error was 1/20 wave. I can recommend the Foucault test (wrongly spelt in the text above), the caustic and Ronchi tests are difficult to quantify and so don't always indicate the right retouch method. The Foucault test needs a bit of practice, Texereau describes it well. The book ist still available from Willman-Bell, or even as a PDF file
    I also used the Hartmann test, this delivers a contour map of the error (still have the program somewhere. One can cut the Hartmann mask laboriously out of thin card.
    The ultimate test is the Bath interferometric test, but it's a little complicated

    0
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    I would love to do a quartz mirror someday - or better yet, zerodur. I've thumbed through my copies of the English and French version of the Texereau book, it's very good. Link here: https://www.willbell.com/tm/tm3.htm. You're right, Foucault is highly recommended and there are a lot of resources out there for interpreting the results properly for someone who's just getting into this. Ronchi is a very "quick and dirty" way to see what is up, but doesn't give great info on correction. I've read that Mobsby-Null testing is a good variant of Ronchi but haven't the experience to comment directly on that. Here's more about that test: http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/mosby.htm
    Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge about testing (oh, and fixed the mis-spelling of Foucault - I typed it like I hear people say it, not like the person's last name should be spelled!).

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    dwleo
    dwleo

    1 year ago

    Man o Man, did this bring back memories. I got addicted to this about 40 years ago. Everything was hand built for the whole process including making my own testing equipment. I started with a 6", then built an 8" and my final one was a 12". The processes as described here are very accurate. It is not for the fleeting. The 12" actually caused me to make a motor driven grinder as the effort was enormous for that size of a mirror. When one gets to the polishing stage, be aware. The Red Rouge will get everywhere and stain greatly. But, as was said, this is one of the most rewarding projects one could undertake. It definately teaches you patience and grit (pun intended). And it is informative. Prior, I did not know that glass is only a supercooled liquid. (See pictures of windows in old, old villages in Europe and the run is evident) I did mangae to impregnate the image of the pitch tool (checkerboard) into the mirror and it took a lot of polishing to get it out. If you have the time and the desire to do this, print out his instructions as they are very good - better than I found way back when. Sorry I rambled. Great instructional, well documented and great pics.

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    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Thanks for the comment, not rambling at all! Also, thanks for the tips. I also managed to have the microfacets embed on the surface of the glass - took a bit of a break at that stage and left them sitting together for too long, it polished out on mine okay though. You are right, with larger mirrors (above 8") it is handy to have a machine do all of the hogging out work - they are relatively simple to build if you have access to a small motor. It's a lot of glass to remove on a larger mirror by hand! Thanks for the kind words about the Instructable, too - I spent a lot of time researching and completing this project, happy to share the many, many resources I found to make it a success for me. Clear skies!

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    maewert
    maewert

    1 year ago

    Thank You for the very informative Instructible! I enjoy seeing others building telescopes!

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    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Yeah, I wouldn't say it's a "lost art" but certainly something that isn't quite as popular as the heyday of the 50s-70s, mostly because good telescope optics are much cheaper than they were at that time. Still a very, very fun way to learn about optics and make something for yourself (or others) that you can be proud of!

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    lsymms
    lsymms

    1 year ago

    typo: "Just put the tool on the bottom and the tool on top"

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    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    Fixed the typo, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

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    Cyborg Eagles
    Cyborg Eagles

    1 year ago

    i always wanted to do this. Thanks for the instructable. I reread this a few times, but missed the description of the "tool" you use to shape the mirror. What is it?

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    spectrUMDiscoveryArea
    spectrUMDiscoveryArea

    Reply 1 year ago

    It's a really fun project to take on - I've done many since, but this has been one of the most rewarding! The tool is another glass blank - in the supplies it's indicated, and in the photo of the two circles of glass, it's the smaller one. The tool is a piece of glass that takes on the opposite curvature of the mirror, is one way to think of it. Some people pour a plaster tool and use porcelain tiles instead of a piece of glass, this is cheaper and better with larger mirrors. Thanks for the question!