For some reason I don't quite grok, K'nexers in general seem to conflate their personal opinion with objective facts. By definition, if you say "X is the best gun" or "Y is the best K'nexer" or "Z is the best K'nex foo/bar/baz/qux" it is a subjective opinion, neither reality nor provable fact.
This being the case, why is it so difficult a proposition simply to agree to disagree when opinions radically differ? It's not as though *anything* hinges on the majority opinion; unlike in politics, nothing is at stake. There are precisely no consequences if you have a "losing" opinion; since the admins are neutral and allow all projects if appropriate. There is literally nothing to gain by mass downrating and flaming on projects you don't like; and nothing to lose by simply ignoring projects you dislike.
If more people dislike block triggers than not, that's fine, but why do you gang up on anyone who dares build a block trigger after the majority has spoken? It serves no purpose and is definitely not in the spirit of the site or DIY to do so. (This is precisely the problem of factions Madison was warning about in Federalist No. 10 - the danger of factions seems equally applicable to the K'nex section of Instructables as to a republic).
Why the disrespect and vitriol and silly drama and infighting? I realize I'm shouting into the wind, and what I say will make no difference whatsoever, but honestly I'm a bit perplexed; why do you find it necessary not only to violently assert that your opinion is ironclad fact, but to become enraged when someone asserts equally vehemently the very same thing? Why the marathon threads with arguments, bickering, and general abuse of the Be Nice policy? At the other extreme, why all the self-flagellation rendered ultimately pointless by the lack of any real change
Why not recognize it's all subjective opinion, agree to disagree where your tastes differ, and get back to making cool stuff instead of fighting on the internet?
Lol, I guess he wasn't expecting a full-blow speech though. You probably should have linked to an excerpt from Federalist No. 10, that would have made it so much better.
We "Gang up" on block triggers because there are so many of them. I realize this sounds ironic, but the number of block trigger guns probably outnumber us knex "regulars" 10 to 1. Yes they may be built a little differently each time but it's still the same result with no real improvement or innovation.
We generally give negative reactions because we want the author to see that he can, and should, do better. A general bit of advice most of the older knexers would give is to look around, build what exists first and then build your own based on what you have learned from what was already built. This is the way I want to see new knexers go down, but we are probably going about it the wrong way.
I personally try to avoid subjective statements like "X is the best gun" unless it's a replica and it looks more like the thing it's replicating than any other existing replicas, or if it's the only item of it's kind.
I thought of it, but decided that anyone interested could either remember what Federalist No. 10 says re: factions, or look it up. :p
(Disclaimer: hopefully my wording is not misleading - I don't mean to sound confrontational; merely to observe what I see as reflecting major problems with this particular section of the site)
>We "Gang up" on block triggers because there are so many of them.
You miss my point: there *is no reason* to gang up on them. There are a lot of them, perhaps, but that is not a valid reason to put them down.
What does it hurt you to ignore them? There's no reason to put them down simply because there are many many similar projects. That is entirely opposite site policy (not to mentions Kiteman's law!). All appropriate projects are encouraged on Instructables, regardless of similarity to existing projects (appropriate including non-plagarism).
Again, not to put anyone down, but frankly there seems to be a self-appointed corps that seems to have set itself up as rule makers and rule enforcers, almost as if they ran their own site (not that I have anyone specific in mind). Constructive criticism and honest individual ratings are fine, but policing projects is not appropriate.
>We generally give negative reactions because we want the author to see that he can, and should, do better.
That can be done in a way that is not overly confrontational - simply give constructive criticism without couching it in personal terms. And when that's done, that's great! I'm talking about the stupid rating wars, arguments, name-calling, and what have you. There's no justifying those. There's a difference between ganging up and valid criticism - all I'm saying is that to the extent the former is practiced, it shouldn't be.
>look around, build what exists first and then build your own based on what you have learned from what was already built
That's probably okay advice, but to be honest, it again feels like the exclusive site, where newbies must "audition". As long as the project meets minimum quality/appropriateness levels as judged by staff (that is, if filters haven't caught it and there's no good reason to think Randy would remove it if flagged), it should be welcome, or (if that's not possible) ignored. If someone has built something they want to share that does not violate the TOS, there's no reason to "hate" on it. Say you don't like it because of X, offer suggestions for improvement, downvote, but the fights and nastiness that often break out have to stop.
>I personally try to avoid subjective statements like "X is the best gun" unless it's a replica and it looks more like the thing it's replicating than any other existing replicas, or if it's the only item of it's kind.
That's a good way to handle it, IMHO. Of course, there's not anything wrong with making the statement itself; it's the violent defense of one's opinion as if it were provable fact that becomes a problem.
TL;DR: K'nexers need to remember the Be Nice policy.
You're right, but it takes away from the variety of knex gunning and it buries all the good projects under mediocre or bad projects. For example, this Halo Battle rifle replica made out of knex is a skeleton, and it doesn't look like the real thing, it has over 9000 views, and is the first result on Google, while mine has only 700 and is below it. (I'm talking about when you search under "Videos".)
Louis XIV made a good original mechanism for a gun, but there were so many other bad projects burying it that it took 2 years after it's original posting for someone to make a decent gun with it. That's what hurts us. The first few of these guns were acceptable, such as (Your name here)'s block trigger, and Killerk's pistol, because they both marked significant innovations in knex technology for the time they were posted.
That leads me to my next point, about "building what exists first". I wouldn't consider it an "audition", I'd consider it a learning experience. When I originally started out, I didn't know anything about a knex gun, much less building with knex. Oblivitus told me to try and build a gun that already existed to get an idea of what to do, and I did. I learned about the various ways mechanisms worked, and that led to ideas of improving them. That's the mindset the original knexers from 2006 have, and the mindset all knexers SHOULD have.
The reason we tell people over and over is that eventually they listen. They learn from others. They eventually help our knex community by presenting improvements over existing technology, or in some cases, brand new innovations that have never been done before. I'm a testament to this.
I believe the problem is that we are going about this the wrong way. Not enough people are telling others to see what others made and improve on their mechanism, or we aren't saying it with a proper word choice, because most knexers are young, and aren't kung-fu-dojo-masters with huge freaking beards.
The mediocre/bad projects should just be buried by low ratings, with comments about how to improve if people are so inclined to leave them.
>The reason we tell people over and over is that eventually they listen. They learn from others. They eventually help our knex community by presenting improvements over existing technology, or in some cases, brand new innovations that have never been done before. I'm a testament to this.
That's good! I'm definitely not saying nothing negative should ever be said, just that the pettiness is bad.
>That leads me to my next point, about "building what exists first". I wouldn't consider it an "audition", I'd consider it a learning experience.
Fair enough.
> Not enough people are telling others to see what others made and improve on their mechanism, or we aren't saying it with a proper word choice, because most knexers are young, and aren't kung-fu-dojo-masters with huge freaking beards.
I think that's basically the problem (though age isn't an excuse, it is an explanation). Saying "this needs a LOT of improvement because of X, Y, and Z" isn't bad - it's great! Saying "this sucks, ANOTHER block trigger?!" is bad. Time ought, as you say, to help a lot, and hopefully the community can cultivate the correct demeanor in giving feedback through both example and active comments on tone.
55 Comments
12 years ago on Introduction
Beats my Wall-E by miles, lol! Very nice man, atleast you got the colors and proportions right
12 years ago on Introduction
cool
12 years ago on Introduction
Instructions now posted
https://www.instructables.com/id/Knex-Walle-E/
12 years ago on Introduction
Have you ever thought about posting your Radial Engine? :)
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
Yeh I have thought about it. The trouble is I don't have many pictures and it was taken apart ages ago making it hard to create any instructions.
Guess I could just create a slide show, anyone interested in seeing it?
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
I'm currently working on a radial engine lol.
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
Goodoh, you do know that a proper radial engine has an odd number of cylinders. Very hard to do with K'nex. Good luck, be good to see it finished
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
Yeah thats a problem, but also another one is the cam rollers...
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
What I did was to use 4 small black wheels with one of the holes slightly enlarged so it will fit on a rod.
http://chinnybeer.co.uk/Slideshow_Stuff/K%27nex_Radial.html
12 years ago on Introduction
Here is the thing.
For some reason I don't quite grok, K'nexers in general seem to conflate their personal opinion with objective facts. By definition, if you say "X is the best gun" or "Y is the best K'nexer" or "Z is the best K'nex foo/bar/baz/qux" it is a subjective opinion, neither reality nor provable fact.
This being the case, why is it so difficult a proposition simply to agree to disagree when opinions radically differ? It's not as though *anything* hinges on the majority opinion; unlike in politics, nothing is at stake. There are precisely no consequences if you have a "losing" opinion; since the admins are neutral and allow all projects if appropriate. There is literally nothing to gain by mass downrating and flaming on projects you don't like; and nothing to lose by simply ignoring projects you dislike.
If more people dislike block triggers than not, that's fine, but why do you gang up on anyone who dares build a block trigger after the majority has spoken? It serves no purpose and is definitely not in the spirit of the site or DIY to do so. (This is precisely the problem of factions Madison was warning about in Federalist No. 10 - the danger of factions seems equally applicable to the K'nex section of Instructables as to a republic).
Why the disrespect and vitriol and silly drama and infighting? I realize I'm shouting into the wind, and what I say will make no difference whatsoever, but honestly I'm a bit perplexed; why do you find it necessary not only to violently assert that your opinion is ironclad fact, but to become enraged when someone asserts equally vehemently the very same thing? Why the marathon threads with arguments, bickering, and general abuse of the Be Nice policy? At the other extreme, why all the self-flagellation rendered ultimately pointless by the lack of any real change
Why not recognize it's all subjective opinion, agree to disagree where your tastes differ, and get back to making cool stuff instead of fighting on the internet?
I don't get it.
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
Lol, I guess he wasn't expecting a full-blow speech though. You probably should have linked to an excerpt from Federalist No. 10, that would have made it so much better.
We "Gang up" on block triggers because there are so many of them. I realize this sounds ironic, but the number of block trigger guns probably outnumber us knex "regulars" 10 to 1. Yes they may be built a little differently each time but it's still the same result with no real improvement or innovation.
We generally give negative reactions because we want the author to see that he can, and should, do better. A general bit of advice most of the older knexers would give is to look around, build what exists first and then build your own based on what you have learned from what was already built. This is the way I want to see new knexers go down, but we are probably going about it the wrong way.
I personally try to avoid subjective statements like "X is the best gun" unless it's a replica and it looks more like the thing it's replicating than any other existing replicas, or if it's the only item of it's kind.
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
I thought of it, but decided that anyone interested could either remember what Federalist No. 10 says re: factions, or look it up. :p
(Disclaimer: hopefully my wording is not misleading - I don't mean to sound confrontational; merely to observe what I see as reflecting major problems with this particular section of the site)
>We "Gang up" on block triggers because there are so many of them.
You miss my point: there *is no reason* to gang up on them. There are a lot of them, perhaps, but that is not a valid reason to put them down.
What does it hurt you to ignore them? There's no reason to put them down simply because there are many many similar projects. That is entirely opposite site policy (not to mentions Kiteman's law!). All appropriate projects are encouraged on Instructables, regardless of similarity to existing projects (appropriate including non-plagarism).
Again, not to put anyone down, but frankly there seems to be a self-appointed corps that seems to have set itself up as rule makers and rule enforcers, almost as if they ran their own site (not that I have anyone specific in mind). Constructive criticism and honest individual ratings are fine, but policing projects is not appropriate.
>We generally give negative reactions because we want the author to see that he can, and should, do better.
That can be done in a way that is not overly confrontational - simply give constructive criticism without couching it in personal terms. And when that's done, that's great! I'm talking about the stupid rating wars, arguments, name-calling, and what have you. There's no justifying those. There's a difference between ganging up and valid criticism - all I'm saying is that to the extent the former is practiced, it shouldn't be.
>look around, build what exists first and then build your own based on what you have learned from what was already built
That's probably okay advice, but to be honest, it again feels like the exclusive site, where newbies must "audition". As long as the project meets minimum quality/appropriateness levels as judged by staff (that is, if filters haven't caught it and there's no good reason to think Randy would remove it if flagged), it should be welcome, or (if that's not possible) ignored. If someone has built something they want to share that does not violate the TOS, there's no reason to "hate" on it. Say you don't like it because of X, offer suggestions for improvement, downvote, but the fights and nastiness that often break out have to stop.
>I personally try to avoid subjective statements like "X is the best gun" unless it's a replica and it looks more like the thing it's replicating than any other existing replicas, or if it's the only item of it's kind.
That's a good way to handle it, IMHO. Of course, there's not anything wrong with making the statement itself; it's the violent defense of one's opinion as if it were provable fact that becomes a problem.
TL;DR: K'nexers need to remember the Be Nice policy.
(Whoa, sorry that became so long...)
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
You're right, but it takes away from the variety of knex gunning and it buries all the good projects under mediocre or bad projects. For example, this Halo Battle rifle replica made out of knex is a skeleton, and it doesn't look like the real thing, it has over 9000 views, and is the first result on Google, while mine has only 700 and is below it. (I'm talking about when you search under "Videos".)
Louis XIV made a good original mechanism for a gun, but there were so many other bad projects burying it that it took 2 years after it's original posting for someone to make a decent gun with it. That's what hurts us. The first few of these guns were acceptable, such as (Your name here)'s block trigger, and Killerk's pistol, because they both marked significant innovations in knex technology for the time they were posted.
That leads me to my next point, about "building what exists first". I wouldn't consider it an "audition", I'd consider it a learning experience. When I originally started out, I didn't know anything about a knex gun, much less building with knex. Oblivitus told me to try and build a gun that already existed to get an idea of what to do, and I did. I learned about the various ways mechanisms worked, and that led to ideas of improving them. That's the mindset the original knexers from 2006 have, and the mindset all knexers SHOULD have.
The reason we tell people over and over is that eventually they listen. They learn from others. They eventually help our knex community by presenting improvements over existing technology, or in some cases, brand new innovations that have never been done before. I'm a testament to this.
I believe the problem is that we are going about this the wrong way. Not enough people are telling others to see what others made and improve on their mechanism, or we aren't saying it with a proper word choice, because most knexers are young, and aren't kung-fu-dojo-masters with huge freaking beards.
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
The mediocre/bad projects should just be buried by low ratings, with comments about how to improve if people are so inclined to leave them.
>The reason we tell people over and over is that eventually they listen. They learn from others. They eventually help our knex community by presenting improvements over existing technology, or in some cases, brand new innovations that have never been done before. I'm a testament to this.
That's good! I'm definitely not saying nothing negative should ever be said, just that the pettiness is bad.
>That leads me to my next point, about "building what exists first". I wouldn't consider it an "audition", I'd consider it a learning experience.
Fair enough.
> Not enough people are telling others to see what others made and improve on their mechanism, or we aren't saying it with a proper word choice, because most knexers are young, and aren't kung-fu-dojo-masters with huge freaking beards.
I think that's basically the problem (though age isn't an excuse, it is an explanation). Saying "this needs a LOT of improvement because of X, Y, and Z" isn't bad - it's great! Saying "this sucks, ANOTHER block trigger?!" is bad. Time ought, as you say, to help a lot, and hopefully the community can cultivate the correct demeanor in giving feedback through both example and active comments on tone.
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
Yep. I sure hope so.
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
I worship you. Just saying. :)
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
(Me or chinnybeer?)
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
You, Lithium Rain.
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
Who doesn't?
Reply 12 years ago on Introduction
The woefully uninformed. :)